Clairvoyant Tim Abbot - Benefits Cheat

Candlelight.kk wrote:

JDBP wrote:

Candlelight.kk wrote:
"Arrested and charged" is not quite the same as "convicted" and "found guilty".
Remember - Innocent until proven guilty.

Unless you have proof that this has been the case since conviction, then you are just blowing out hot air.

They were caught RED HANDED! In VIDEO that was posted ONLINE!!!!

Also if there was a single real psychic at the SNU (There isn't) then they would have KNOWN in advance that he would get sent to prison!

Naive again!

The video showed yer man exercising in the gym, lifting heavy weights etc - and his wife shopping and bending down and walking with heavy shopping bag without difficulty etc - BUT there was no PROOF at that juncture that they were illegally claiming benefits under false pretences (i.e. claiming that they were unable to do these things - and also in the same vein supposedly claiming that they were unable to work because of those restrictions.)
At that time it was simply a matter of accusation (by an anonymous third party who reported them to the DWP). That report could have been made by a mischief-maker, or jealousy or any number of other reasons. That side of it had to be PROVEN for the accusation to be taken seriously.

So the police arrested and charged them JUST on the word of some anon person? They never checked with DWP first?
Surely it was the DWP who went to the police after they gathered the evidence!

Give up, you lost this battle trying to defend your fraudulent friends at the SNU!

JDBP wrote:Give up, you lost this battle trying to defend your fraudulent friends at the SNU!

They are not my friends! And I'm not defending anyone here - certainly not the SNU! Why do you always read into things just what you want to see? I am 'speaking' here (as I always do) about fairness, balance and justice.

IF the SNU continue to book Tim or Jeanette Abbot to demonstrate in their churches, or continue to support their work in tutoring courses and workshops (from which they receive a fee) etc after this conviction, then (IMO) that will be a huge injustice on the part of the SNU.

Candlelight.kk wrote:

JDBP wrote:Give up, you lost this battle trying to defend your fraudulent friends at the SNU!

They are not my friends! And I'm not defending anyone here - certainly not the SNU! Why do you always read into things just what you want to see? I am 'speaking' here (as I always do) about fairness, balance and justice.

IF the SNU continue to book Tim or Jeanette Abbot to demonstrate in their churches, or continue to support their work in tutoring courses and workshops (from which they receive a fee) etc after this conviction, then (IMO) that will be a huge injustice on the part of the SNU.

The true INJUSTICE is allowing ANY fraudulent medium to work in the SNU Churches, and earn a living under the SNU banner!
And right now that includes 100% of the mediums that work in partnership with the SNU!

JDBP wrote:The true INJUSTICE is allowing ANY fraudulent medium to work in the SNU Churches, and earn a living under the SNU banner!
And right now that includes 100% of the mediums that work in partnership with the SNU!

Granted, there is an element of fraudulent practice in the very lucrative 'psychic industry' - and a distinctive portion of the so-called ''Physical Mediumship' arena, but contrary to your repetetive 100% all-or-nothing mantra - that 'all mediums are fraud' - this does not take away from the genuine, of which there are many.

Candlelight.kk wrote:

JDBP wrote:The true INJUSTICE is allowing ANY fraudulent medium to work in the SNU Churches, and earn a living under the SNU banner!
And right now that includes 100% of the mediums that work in partnership with the SNU!

Granted, there is an element of fraudulent practice in the very lucrative 'psychic industry' - and a distinctive portion of the so-called ''Physical Mediumship' arena, but contrary to your repetetive 100% all-or-nothing mantra - that 'all mediums are fraud' - this does not take away from the genuine, of which there are many.

Name one proven genuine medium? Just one

JDBP wrote:

Candlelight.kk wrote:

JDBP wrote:Give up, you lost this battle trying to defend your fraudulent friends at the SNU!

They are not my friends! And I'm not defending anyone here - certainly not the SNU! Why do you always read into things just what you want to see? I am 'speaking' here (as I always do) about fairness, balance and justice.

IF the SNU continue to book Tim or Jeanette Abbot to demonstrate in their churches, or continue to support their work in tutoring courses and workshops (from which they receive a fee) etc after this conviction, then (IMO) that will be a huge injustice on the part of the SNU.

The true INJUSTICE is allowing ANY fraudulent medium to work in the SNU Churches, and earn a living under the SNU banner!
And right now that includes 100% of the mediums that work in partnership with the SNU!

The crime for which this pair have been convicted is benefits fraud, i.e. dishonestly receiving Benefits from the Department of Work and Pensions (a huge amount of money over a number of years) on the pretext of not being able to work, while all along working - as mediums. They have been found guilty of Benefits fraud. There is no evidence to surmise that either of them are "fraudulent mediums". If the work they were doing respectively had been as hairdressers, said conviction would not automatically assume them to be fraudulent hairdressers. They may be excellent hairdressers, but it goes without saying that as a consequence of their crimes, their employers, be they hairdressers or Spiritualists, would be extremely foolish (and possibly acting illegally) if they were to continue employing them - regardless of their profession.

Isn't using "fraudulent medium" tautological, Jon?

You really need a word to find a replacement word for 'medium' as well as there's no such thing in your book.... Try 'practitioner' for a handy catch-all! It's what I use to describe individuals whose psychic/spiritual attributes are unclear.

evergreen wrote:
The crime for which this pair have been convicted is benefits fraud, i.e. dishonestly receiving Benefits from the Department of Work and Pensions (a huge amount of money over a number of years) on the pretext of not being able to work, while all along working - as mediums. They have been found guilty of Benefits fraud. There is no evidence to surmise that either of them are "fraudulent mediums". If the work they were doing respectively had been as hairdressers, said conviction would not automatically assume them to be fraudulent hairdressers. They may be excellent hairdressers, but it goes without saying that as a consequence of their crimes, their employers, be they hairdressers or Spiritualists, would be extremely foolish (and possibly acting illegally) if they were to continue employing them - regardless of their profession.

So you have no problem seeing a medium who is a convicted criminal fraud, someone who has used trickery, lies and manipulation to steal money from the tax payer. You are able to separate that crime from their claims of mediumship?

Bit like separating the crimes of a paedophile babysitter, and paying them to look after your kids, afterall it wasn't your kids they raped was it.

Fraud is fraud in my book.

Remember Capone was taken down by the tax man, and never for his gangster crimes!

Sometimes you have to find other ways to take down a criminal.

Also Tim Abbot is a fake, he does not communicate with the dead and has no psychic abilities, this is a stonewall undeniable fact.

mac wrote:Isn't using "fraudulent medium" tautological, Jon?

You really need a word to find a replacement word for 'medium' as well as there's no such thing in your book.... Try 'practitioner' for a handy catch-all! It's what I use to describe individuals whose psychic/spiritual attributes are unclear.

There is no such thing as a real magician either, the correct term for someone performing in that manner is conjuror.

But I do get your point, it is a double negative.

As for there being so such thing as a medium, again it depends on your definition.
My definition of what a medium is, is a person who performs an act that gives the appearance of communicating with the dead.
My definition is kinda backed up by other 100 years of real credible scientific study and knowledge.

So much like we use the term magician, even though there is no such thing as magic, I think it is acceptable to use medium even though there is no such thing as mediumship.

So if I throw out the word fake or fraudulent before the word medium, although grammatically incorrect, it does further cement the scientific fact that mediums do not do what they claim.

The reason why I would not say fake magician, is because magicians in general claim to perform illusions and not real magic, so there are very few people who believe it is real.

Also magicians and mediums are basically the same thing, and many many magicians tricks were invented by mediums who were the original magicians.

evergreen wrote:

JDBP wrote:

Candlelight.kk wrote:

JDBP wrote:Give up, you lost this battle trying to defend your fraudulent friends at the SNU!

They are not my friends! And I'm not defending anyone here - certainly not the SNU! Why do you always read into things just what you want to see? I am 'speaking' here (as I always do) about fairness, balance and justice.

IF the SNU continue to book Tim or Jeanette Abbot to demonstrate in their churches, or continue to support their work in tutoring courses and workshops (from which they receive a fee) etc after this conviction, then (IMO) that will be a huge injustice on the part of the SNU.

The true INJUSTICE is allowing ANY fraudulent medium to work in the SNU Churches, and earn a living under the SNU banner!
And right now that includes 100% of the mediums that work in partnership with the SNU!

The crime for which this pair have been convicted is benefits fraud, i.e. dishonestly receiving Benefits from the Department of Work and Pensions (a huge amount of money over a number of years) on the pretext of not being able to work, while all along working - as mediums. They have been found guilty of Benefits fraud. There is no evidence to surmise that either of them are "fraudulent mediums". If the work they were doing respectively had been as hairdressers, said conviction would not automatically assume them to be fraudulent hairdressers. They may be excellent hairdressers, but it goes without saying that as a consequence of their crimes, their employers, be they hairdressers or Spiritualists, would be extremely foolish (and possibly acting illegally) if they were to continue employing them - regardless of their profession.

Absolutely agree, Evergreen. That's the point I was trying to make. JD is (quite characteristically and most likely, deliberately) missing the point here - or at least, skirting around it. In his world - with or without this case - the individuals (because they are mediums) should be deemed as frauds, as he believes (quite wrongly) that all mediums are frauds.

Candlelight.kk wrote:
Absolutely agree, Evergreen. That's the point I was trying to make. JD is (quite characteristically and most likely, deliberately) missing the point here - or at least, skirting around it. In his world - with or without this case - the individuals (because they are mediums) should be deemed as frauds, as he believes (quite wrongly) that all mediums are frauds.

Not missing any point.
I asked your earlier to name one proven genuine medium, your silence was defeaning.
Mediumship as defined by the spiritualist movement is impossible. This is just as much as a fact as saying that you flying by flapping your arms and flying all the way to Mars is impossible. they are equally impossible at this point in time.

You say I am wrong about all mediums being frauds.
Show me the evidence? Show me the credible scientific peer reviewed evidence that says I am wrong?

If you claim such abilities, PROVE IT! Tell me the name of my dead Greek grandmother, Tell me the name of the village she was born in! Two things she would happily and desperately want to tell you to tell me to prove she is still alive.

Mediums who refuse to prove themselves, disgust me.

Fraud is fraud, you tell a lie to get money out of people, this is what Tim Abbot is in prison for. Like it or not the man is a proven liar, conman, fraud, thief and so on.

If you can separate that PROVEN FACT, and can still believe him when he says "I can communicate with your dead child, but you got to pay me first" then you are the biggest fool around.

JDBP wrote:

Candlelight.kk wrote:
Absolutely agree, Evergreen. That's the point I was trying to make. JD is (quite characteristically and most likely, deliberately) missing the point here - or at least, skirting around it. In his world - with or without this case - the individuals (because they are mediums) should be deemed as frauds, as he believes (quite wrongly) that all mediums are frauds.

Not missing any point.
I asked your earlier to name one proven genuine medium, your silence was defeaning.

So deafening, perhaps, that you could hear the long ...... ((((SIGH)))) .....??
and that's because we've been through it all so many times before; various approaches, various outlooks, various examples ... and still your blinkered stance remains, head so firmly buried in the sand that you are unable to see, hear or feel any reality other than that revealed within the tightly enclosed sandy burrow where your head resides. Please don't expect me to dig down and join you in that dark place in order to discuss an issue that is not even in there. Only when you come up for air and wipe the sand and grit from your eyes and ears will you be free to understand and get to grips with the point at hand (which you are missing as far as this topic is concerned).

Candlelight.kk wrote:
So deafening, perhaps, that you could hear the long ...... ((((SIGH)))) .....??

Because you tired of failing so many times to answer a simple question?

and that's because we've been through it all so many times before; various approaches, various outlooks, various examples ... and still your blinkered stance remains,

Blinkered how?
You have said Gordon Smith, so I took 3 separate readings of his, and I broke them down and showed the world exactly how he performed his trick.
YOU refused to accept what I had done, coming up with all manner of excuses, (true believer syndrome)

So to recap, I made a challenge, you gave me a name, I proved my point, you refused to accept it, and you call me blinkered? hmmmm

head so firmly buried in the sand that you are unable to see, hear or feel any reality other than that revealed within the tightly enclosed sandy burrow where your head resides. Please don't expect me to dig down and join you in that dark place in order to discuss an issue that is not even in there. Only when you come up for air and wipe the sand and grit from your eyes and ears will you be free to understand and get to grips with the point at hand (which you are missing as far as this topic is concerned).

So yet again you cant show me a single proven medium, not one!

So once again I come out of this discussion smelling of roses, been able to back up every single point I have made, ran rings around anyone who disagreed with me, and you are left to just try and insult me, make vague comments, and so on.

You I am afraid come across as a bit of a sore loser.

Its a shame that when it comes to psychics I will never know that feeling, despite the fact I WANT to be proven wrong, because for me to be proven wrong is the most wonderful and glorious thing I can ever imagine happening to me!

Right = Sad, miserable, grieving for those i have lost.
Wrong = Happy, excited, relieved for the knowledge those i lost have been found.


You think I take glory in being right all the time, when the truth is I want just one person to take me on, head on, and destroy everything I thought I knew about the world.

You know what, Jon - You remind me so much of a guy I met many years ago - at the London-based Christmas party for Mecca chain of bookmakers. I knew absolutely nobody there at that event, apart from my friend who was manager of the Edgware Road branch at the time. I was there at her invitation, and for the meal part the tables were allotted to 10 seats at each table. The conversation around our table got onto discussing mediums, and one guy was banging on about how what a lot of b---s--t it was, "they're all frauds, liars and cheats". I asked him how did he know this and how could he be so sure - he replied that as far as he is concerned his dad was "dead and that's the end of it". (Turned out his dad had passed away only fairly recently - about 6/7 months previous). As the guy had never even been to a medium and didn't even know exactly what it was they did, I suggested to him he couldn't really talk with such certainty about a subject he really knew nothing about and made the suggestion that he at least go and see for himself what it is they actually DO - and only then could he reasonably slag off the subject with such conviction. IOW, shut up about it because you don't know what you're talking about!. (This was long before 'Most Haunted' and all the related garbage so widely available these days).

He agreed to go with me on a day of his choosing to a demonstration at the SAGB, where in those days there was an hour-long walk-in-off- the-street Demonstration of Clairvoyance/Mediumship every single evening, with different mediums doing the dems every day. You paid £5 on the door and go sit in the audience (of what in those days could be anything from 30 to 100 or so people). The following Monday, two days later, we walk in the door there. We found we had to pay a bit more that evening £7 instead of £5 - the reason, we were told, because there was a "visiting medium" doing the demo that day.

The large room was packed solid and we squeezed in by the wall near to the back of the room. When the medium came in I recognised her straight away as someone who had been a guest on the 'Terry Wogan' show on telly about 2 weeks previous (that'll give you an idea how long ago this was) - a young medium from Denmark, who Terry had been really taking the 'p' out of on the programme.

Yer man was the second person that she came to with a message - straight away saying his father had passed to spirit very recently, it was not yet a year, and she went on to describe him, the illness that he had when he died (which was apparently correct) and a whole load of things about his dad - details which of course I couldn't verify; all I knew was that it was correct that his dad was recently deceased as he had told me that much.

Every single thing that she told him he poo-poo'd, saying it was an easy guess about his father being dead, 'guessing' what he died of, 'guessing' (correctly) what his favourite tipple was, etc etc. She was coming out with more and more quite detailed stuff and he just flatly fobbed everything off as a lucky guess. She then actually addressed me - asking me "Is he always this stubborn?" I said I don't really know as we'd only just met. Then she said to him "I'm not giving up with you - I will come back to you". She went on then to give messages to every single person in that room - and they were really detailed specific things that she was giving - telling (no questions or 'sounds like' or 'feels like' stuff). She was supposed to be there for an hour, but went way over the time (much to the angst of the chairperson) because she insisted she wanted everyone there to get a message and didn't want anyone to miss out. Then, when everyone had been messaged and she was virtually being pushed out the door as they had to close the building(!) she said "Just one more thing ... Mister Stubborn down there by the wall ... I just want to say one thing to you" - and she gave an address; a door number, a street name and a place name in Liverpool - and said "Does that mean anything to you?"

I looked at him and his mouth had nearly dropped to the floor, his eyes looked as if they were going to pop out of their sockets. That was it. Then the people all started thronging out the door. I looked around for him but couldn't find him in the crowd. I was waiting outside on the pavement when he eventually arrived, and he told me that he had gone to speak to her afterwards to ask if he could get a one-to-one reading with her. Unfortunately, that wasn't possible as she told him she was on tour and off to Italy the next day.

He then told me that the address that she had called out right at the very end was the exact address in Liverpool where he was born and where he had lived for the first 14 years of his life. (He was then 27 and living in London.)
And only that had convinced him. That medium was genuine. Her name was Marion Dampier-Jeans.

Candlelight.kk wrote:You know what, Jon - You remind me so much of a guy I met many years ago - at the London-based Christmas party for Mecca chain of bookmakers.

I used to love those events ;)

As the guy had never even been to a medium and didn't even know exactly what it was they did, I suggested to him he couldn't really talk with such certainty about a subject he really knew nothing about and made the suggestion that he at least go and see for himself what it is they actually DO - and only then could he reasonably slag off the subject with such conviction. IOW, shut up about it because you don't know what you're talking about!. (This was long before 'Most Haunted' and all the related garbage so widely available these days).

Why would I remind you of him?
I have blatantly a millions times more experience and knowledge than him!
I have seen over 200 mediums FACE TO FACE for readings. I have analysed over 2000 readings, I am the single most experience skeptic in the UK. seriously, name one skeptic who has done what I have done!!!

And I was once challenged as you well know, if i was to call mediumship bullshit I should try it first. I DID! AND I still call it bullshit. So in your little story I have already answered all of your challenges, but sorry to interupt....

The large room was packed solid and we squeezed in by the wall near to the back of the room. When the medium came in I recognised her straight away as someone who had been a guest on the 'Terry Wogan' show on telly about 2 weeks previous (that'll give you an idea how long ago this was) - a young medium from Denmark, who Terry had been really taking the 'p' out of on the programme.

Who was the medium? I probably exposed them as a fraud before.

Yer man was the second person that she came to with a message - straight away saying his father had passed to spirit very recently, it was not yet a year, and she went on to describe him, the illness that he had when he died (which was apparently correct) and a whole load of things about his dad - details which of course I couldn't verify; all I knew was that it was correct that his dad was recently deceased as he had told me that much.

So she did a cold reading. Ok, really fascinating stuff here lol

Every single thing that she told him he poo-poo'd, saying it was an easy guess about his father being dead, 'guessing' what he died of, 'guessing' (correctly) what his favourite tipple was, etc etc. She was coming out with more and more quite detailed stuff and he just flatly fobbed everything off as a lucky guess. She then actually addressed me - asking me "Is he always this stubborn?" I said I don't really know as we'd only just met.

Haha, so when she was obviously failing with him, she moved to you, and her first assumption she was WRONG about you and his relationship! OMG, this medium is useless!

Then she said to him "I'm not giving up with you - I will come back to you". She went on then to give messages to every single person in that room - and they were really detailed specific things that she was giving - telling (no questions or 'sounds like' or 'feels like' stuff). She was supposed to be there for an hour, but went way over the time (much to the angst of the chairperson) because she insisted she wanted everyone there to get a message and didn't want anyone to miss out.

Show me the footage of her appearence on Wogan, I 100% guarantee you she was cold reading, and I can easily expose her methods.

Then, when everyone had been messaged and she was virtually being pushed out the door as they had to close the building(!) she said "Just one more thing ... Mister Stubborn down there by the wall ... I just want to say one thing to you" - and she gave an address; a door number, a street name and a place name in Liverpool - and said "Does that mean anything to you?"

Hahahahahahaha. OMFG lol.
Sorry that made me laugh.
If true, she just hot read your friend and conned the shit out of you. or of course you are lying!
She "knew" the address he was born, but didn't know that you and he were virtual strangers! HAHAHAHAHA

How gullible can you be!

He then told me that the address that she had called out right at the very end was the exact address in Liverpool where he was born and where he had lived for the first 14 years of his life. (He was then 27 and living in London.)
And only that had convinced him. That medium was genuine. Her name was Marion Dampier-Jeans.

So is there any actual proof of this event? A recording, something tangible, or is it just another one of your ridiculous stories from 30 years ago?

A quick google of her name. Oh dear. lol

So your "proof" of a real medium, is a decades old story, when you would have had even less knowledge then than you do now (if thats possible) of the methods of trickery. Something that isn't recorded.

OMG, this is like me telling someone about a Paul Daniels magic show from 30 years ago and saying it was real magic because there was no way he could have faked it!

Do you understand why I laugh at you so much, why you come across as such a joke, when that is the best you have to offer!

Not only did your friend get conned, but you did too!

Go find me a recording of her in English of her giving ANYONE a reading, you transcribe it, and I will show you step by step how she does it! How does that sound!

You really are a fool you know

JDBP wrote:Not only did your friend get conned, but you did too!

That is your considered opinion. lol - No surprises there.

No doubt, the discerning reader will make up their own mind.

Candlelight.kk wrote:

JDBP wrote:Not only did your friend get conned, but you did too!

That is your considered opinion. lol - No surprises there.

No doubt, the discerning reader will make up their own mind.

It is my opinion based on what you have told me. The fact that the psychic failed to realise you were a stranger to the man you was with, yet apparently could tell him the address of where he grew up! Which is blatantly hot reading if it went down the way you claim, (which I doubt of course).

It is an opinion based on the sheer lack of credibility this woman has! Remember she is friends with Victor Zammitt and believes in the physical mediumship of fraud Warren Caylor!

So yeah the discerning reader will make up their own mind about this obvious fraud.

And many people will also know how gullible you are, so will see through your story and the events in it.

As I have said before, Just because YOU do not know how a trick is done, does not make it any less of a trick, and your lack of critical thinking is famous on this forum.

ps. You sit in the dark, pull funny faces, and put on the voices of dead sailors and claim that you are being possessed, just wanted to remind your discerning readers of that claim, before they consider you to be an intelligent and trustful source!

pps. A fanciful anecdote has never equalled credible proof of anything. I asked for PROOF. Not some silly story from decades ago of you being fooled.

JDBP wrote:It is my opinion based on what you have told me. The fact that the psychic failed to realise you were a stranger to the man you was with, yet apparently could tell him the address of where he grew up! Which is blatantly hot reading if it went down the way you claim, (which I doubt of course).

So, your considered explanation in conclusion is that it had to be hot reading.

Wiki - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - tells us:

Hot reading is a technique used when giving a psychic reading in stage magic performances, or in other contexts. In hot reading, the reader uses information about the person receiving the reading (for example, from background research or overhearing a conversation) which the receiver is not aware that the reader already knows. Hot reading is commonly used in conjunction with cold reading (where no previously gathered information is used) and can explain how a psychic reader can get a specific claimed "hit" of accurate information.[1]

This technique is used by some television psychics in conjunction with cold reading.[2] The psychics may have clients schedule their appearance ahead of time, and then collect information using collaborators who pose as religious missionaries, magazine sales people, or similar roles.[3] Such visitors can gain a wide understanding of a person from examining their home. The "psychic" may then be briefed on the information, and told where the person will sit in the audience.[4]

So, how, pray, was "hot reading" used in this instance ?? - when we (along with a whole crowd of other people) turned up completely unannounced, in off the street, cash on the door, no pre-booking (and remember - no internet or email or mobile phones in those days anyway). The medium had no knowledge of who was going to turn up on that night - knew nothing about us and we knew nothing about her - I didn't even know the guy's surname.

Candlelight.kk wrote:

JDBP wrote:It is my opinion based on what you have told me. The fact that the psychic failed to realise you were a stranger to the man you was with, yet apparently could tell him the address of where he grew up! Which is blatantly hot reading if it went down the way you claim, (which I doubt of course).

So, your considered explanation in conclusion is that it had to be hot reading.  

Well considering she wrongly thought you two knew each other, yet knew his home address, IF it went down exactly as you describe (again I doubt that), then the ONLY explanation is she cheated.

So, how, pray, was "hot reading" used in this instance ?? - when we (along with a whole crowd of other people) turned up completely unannounced, in off the street, cash on the door, no pre-booking (and remember - no internet or email or mobile phones in those days anyway).  The medium had no knowledge of who was going to turn up on that night - knew nothing about us and we knew nothing about her - I didn't even know the guy's surname.

So your decades old recollection of an event must be taken as evidence then? Is that what you are saying?

This amazing psychic who can pull impossible details out of the air, yet has never bothered to take Randis million dollar challenge?

When psychics are that detailed, the ONLY explanation is they have either gotten prior knowledge of what they are saying, or they are being fed live that info.

Now what I personally suspect happened is that you are mis-remembering the whole thing.

She COLD READ him from start to finish, and threw out names and numbers, which HE then made fit, and over time your memory has mismashed the info together creating a scenario that better suits your own agenda than anything near what actually happened.

We KNOW this is what humans do, you cant seriously expect anyone to accept your version of a decades old event to be accurate can you?

And again for the last time today, just because you do not know how a trick is done does not make it any less of a trick!

When you gonna realise that unless you are the f*****g grand puba of magic tricks, psychology and mediumship, there is gonna be things you simply cant explain cause you are NOT EDUCATED in the trick!

Again give me something I can physically examine, you wanna believe in this woman, thats fine, show me a reading by her in English, and I will show you how she does it! SIMPLE!!

JDBP wrote:So your decades old recollection of an event must be taken as evidence then? Is that what you are saying?

It was evidence enough for the bereaved [extremely skeptical] person in question - at a time when he most needed it, and as I had witnessed it, a little bit of surety for me too.
That's what real Mediumship is all about - and that's what defines a genuine medium (IMO).

Candlelight.kk wrote:

JDBP wrote:So your decades old recollection of an event must be taken as evidence then? Is that what you are saying?

It was evidence enough for the bereaved [extremely skeptical] person in question - at a time when he most needed it, and as I had witnessed it, a little bit of surety for me too.
That's what real Mediumship is all about - and that's what defines a genuine medium (IMO).

I am sorry I disagree, remembering something from decades ago, when you had zero knowledge of how fakes work, does not equate real mediumship in the least.

It is very clear your friend was cold read from start to end. The medium you name is clearly a fraud, mixes with fraudulent people, and has advocate other frauds.

I asked you multiple times to provide some actual proof, best you could come up with is some dodgy misremembered story from decades ago, and you expect me a seasoned investigator and someone with unmatched knowledge of how fake psychics work, to just blindly accept your ridiculous story as some kind of ultimate proof.

I also asked you to give me one reading by her on video in English, you failed to do that too.

Sorry but you have further cemented you idiocy in the history of this forum.

Once again JDBP is left disappointed and saddened, at another lost opportunity from the claims of someone.
Your level of proof is so low it is laughable.

If your level of proof was an accepted scientific level of proof, we would all believe the royal family were repitlian aliens, nessie would be real, Roswell aliens a guaranteed fact. Hell even Uri Geller would have got a nobel prize by now.

Oh well.

Truly pathetic in every way imaginable.

Just once I would love you to throw something at me some incredible I would be left speechless at it, you cant even give me one video of ANY medium IN THE WORLD providing a reading that I cant explain! Just think of that for a minute. You cant show me anything I cant easily debunk!

LOL- Don't come crying to me because of your inability to find video footage to use in an attempt to debunk this medium. It's not my fault that you can't come up with anything! If it means that much to you, why don't you do your own research?! I suggest you try and track down a Danish skeptic called Claus Larsen; he might be able to furnish you with the information you're looking for. He joined the UK-Skeptics forum some years ago, asking there if anyone knew anything about a medium called Marion Dampier-Jeans (as she had apparently issued some kind of challenge to skeptics along the lines of a contradictory challenge to Randi's MDC). As you know, I was a member of UKS, and I happily obliged with an account of that very same story I have given here. Never heard any more from him after that. Perhaps he failed in his quest to debunk also, just as you appear to be doing ... but maybe not - maybe he came up with something(?) and if so, might be willing to share it with you. He was, I believe, the head of some sort of Danish skeptics group. Do let us know how you get on, won't you.

Candlelight.kk wrote:LOL- Don't come crying to me because of your inability to find video footage to use in an attempt to debunk this medium. It's not my fault that you can't come up with anything!

YOU are the one who claims she is a genuine medium!! Why is it up to me to find something? ANd even if I do, I will get the old excuses thrown my way, that i deliberately picked a bad example, or an edited clip etc etc. I want YOU to find the MOST CONVINCING video, the video that you cant explain, that as far as you are concerned shows real mediumship, I want to give you every chance! Then I will take that most perfect of mediumship and expose it for the fraud it is!

If I cant, if I fail, then ok we can start to talk, we can start to look at that medium in a different way. Thats what I want!

If it means that much to you, why don't you do your own research?! I suggest you try and track down a Danish skeptic called Claus Larsen; he might be able to furnish you with the information you're looking for. He joined the UK-Skeptics forum some years ago, asking there if anyone knew anything about a medium called Marion Dampier-Jeans (as she had apparently issued some kind of challenge to skeptics along the lines of a contradictory challenge to Randi's MDC).

His name sounds vaguely familiar, and I am aware of her silly challenge too.

As you know, I was a member of UKS, and I happily obliged with an account of that very same story I have given here. Never heard any more from him after that. Perhaps he failed in his quest to debunk also, just as you appear to be doing ... but maybe not - maybe he came up with something(?) and if so, might be willing to share it with you. He was, I believe, the head of some sort of Danish skeptics group. Do let us know how you get on, won't you.

My lack of being able to speak Norwegian does not mean I have failed to expose this fraud, which is why I gave you the chance to find me a video in English, hell ANY medium you believe is genuine, I can debunk with ease, I did it with Gordon Smith, Tony Stockwell etc.

So I WANT you to prove me wrong.

I will see if I have Claus Larsen in my address book.

Ok I have emailed him

JDBP wrote:My lack of being able to speak Norwegian does not mean I have failed to expose this fraud,

No, I'm sure that's not the reason --- She's Danish! If you spoke German, Faroese or Greenlandic it might help, but Norwegian wouldn't get you very far. :razz:

JDBP wrote:I can debunk with ease, I did it with Gordon Smith, Tony Stockwell etc.

No, you didn't.

Candlelight.kk wrote:

JDBP wrote:My lack of being able to speak Norwegian does not mean I have failed to expose this fraud,

No, I'm sure that's not the reason --- She's Danish! If you spoke German, Faroese or Greenlandic it might help, but Norwegian wouldn't get you very far. :razz:

JDBP wrote:I can debunk with ease, I did it with Gordon Smith, Tony Stockwell etc.

No, you didn't.

Yes I did, I took readings they did, I had them transcribed, then with ease i showed exactly step by step the readings were done.

Just because you are so blinded by their fraud doesn't make it any less of an exposure.
Also be known I stated as a fact that both were frauds, NOT an opinion. I contacted both of them, and offered for them to sue me for what I had said, both refused. Funny that!

And you know I dont need to start on that evil, vile, sick, twisted *********** Tony Stockwell!

There is good reason why his career nosedived and why Colin Fry and Derek Acorah now refuse to have anything to do with him!

JDBP wrote:

Candlelight.kk wrote:

JDBP wrote:My lack of being able to speak Norwegian does not mean I have failed to expose this fraud,

No, I'm sure that's not the reason --- She's Danish! If you spoke German, Faroese or Greenlandic it might help, but Norwegian wouldn't get you very far. :razz:

JDBP wrote:I can debunk with ease, I did it with Gordon Smith, Tony Stockwell etc.

No, you didn't.

Yes I did, I took readings they did, I had them transcribed, then with ease i showed exactly step by step the readings were done.

Interesting (and ironic, perhaps) how your declarations such as the above, over and over display a marked confirmation bias and belief which you do not seem to recognise in yourself.

Confirmation bias, also called myside bias, is the tendency to search for, interpret, or recall information in a way that confirms one's beliefs or hypotheses. It is a type of cognitive bias and a systematic error of inductive reasoning. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for emotionally charged issues and for deeply entrenched beliefs. People also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position. Biased search, interpretation and memory have been invoked to explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence), belief perseverance (when beliefs persist after the evidence for them is shown to be false), the irrational primacy effect (a greater reliance on information encountered early in a series) and illusory correlation (when people falsely perceive an association between two events or situations).

A series of experiments in the 1960s suggested that people are biased toward confirming their existing beliefs. Later work re-interpreted these results as a tendency to test ideas in a one-sided way, focusing on one possibility and ignoring alternatives. In certain situations, this tendency can bias people's conclusions. Explanations for the observed biases include wishful thinking and the limited human capacity to process information. Another explanation is that people show confirmation bias because they are weighing up the costs of being wrong, rather than investigating in a neutral, scientific way.

Confirmation biases contribute to overconfidence in personal beliefs and can maintain or strengthen beliefs in the face of contrary evidence.

Candlelight.kk wrote:
Interesting (and ironic, perhaps) how your declarations such as the above, over and over display a marked confirmation bias and belief which you do not seem to recognise in yourself.

I know what confirmation bias is, but thanks for the patronising post lol.
Thats why in SCIENCE, we have true credible double blind experiments, which eliminate such things, and this is the exact reason why 100% of psychics fail 100% of the time when the chance to cheat is removed!!

So yeah, yet again you fail to answer any of my points or questions.
Ok I will have to see what I can do myself to expose this fraud.

JDBP wrote:

Candlelight.kk wrote:

JDBP wrote:

Candlelight.kk wrote:
"Arrested and charged" is not quite the same as "convicted" and "found guilty".
Remember - Innocent until proven guilty.

Unless you have proof that this has been the case since conviction, then you are just blowing out hot air.

They were caught RED HANDED! In VIDEO that was posted ONLINE!!!!

Also if there was a single real psychic at the SNU (There isn't) then they would have KNOWN in advance that he would get sent to prison!

Naive again!

The video showed yer man exercising in the gym, lifting heavy weights etc - and his wife shopping and bending down and walking with heavy shopping bag without difficulty etc - BUT there was no PROOF at that juncture that they were illegally claiming benefits under false pretences (i.e. claiming that they were unable to do these things - and also in the same vein supposedly claiming that they were unable to work because of those restrictions.)
At that time it was simply a matter of accusation (by an anonymous third party who reported them to the DWP). That report could have been made by a mischief-maker, or jealousy or any number of other reasons. That side of it had to be PROVEN for the accusation to be taken seriously.

So the police arrested and charged them JUST on the word of some anon person? They never checked with DWP first?
Surely it was the DWP who went to the police after they gathered the evidence!

Give up, you lost this battle trying to defend your fraudulent friends at the SNU!

Candlelight.kk wrote:
They are not my friends! And I'm not defending anyone here - certainly not the SNU! Why do you always read into things just what you want to see? I am 'speaking' here (as I always do) about fairness, balance and justice.

IF the SNU continue to book Tim or Jeanette Abbot to demonstrate in their churches, or continue to support their work in tutoring courses and workshops (from which they receive a fee) etc after this conviction, then (IMO) that will be a huge injustice on the part of the SNU.

- The April 2015 edition of Psychic News - Issue No. 4126, reports: (my underlining)

The Spiritualists' National Union, of which both Abbotts have been long-term members and award holders, moved swiftly to condemn the couple's actions in a briefly worded statement:

"When Mr and Mrs Abbott were charged, the SNU, in accordance with its constitution, immediately suspended their membership. Now that they have been convicted it will be for the board of directors to make a permanent decision on their membership status.

There will be a motion on the agenda of the next National Executive Committee meeting to remove their membership. The Abbotts will be invited to make either oral or written representation at this meeting prior to the decision being taken."

Psychic News hopes that as a result of this meeting, the SNU will send a firm and uncompromising message to the public and the mainstream press: Those who drag Spiritualism into the gutter, and expose it to public ridicule by committing long-term crime, while preaching spiritual ethics from church platforms, have no place as representatives of Spiritualism.

The SNU have acted appropriately.

The Spiritualists' National Union, of which both Abbotts have been long-term members and award holders, moved swiftly to condemn the couple's actions in a briefly worded statement:

"When Mr and Mrs Abbott were charged, the SNU, in accordance with its constitution, immediately suspended their membership. Now that they have been convicted it will be for the board of directors to make a permanent decision on their membership status.

There will be a motion on the agenda of the next National Executive Committee meeting to remove their membership. The Abbotts will be invited to make either oral or written representation at this meeting prior to the decision being taken."

Psychic News hopes that as a result of this meeting, the SNU will send a firm and uncompromising message to the public and the mainstream press: Those who drag Spiritualism into the gutter, and expose it to public ridicule by committing long-term crime, while preaching spiritual ethics from church platforms, have no place as representatives of Spiritualism.

The SNU have acted appropriately.

Well there is a first time for everything!
Keep in mind they also condemned Colin Fry when he first got caught cheated, and then spent years covering it up and repackaging him!

In any other industry the moment that any wrong doings would be found out, especially when video evidence is concerned, they would have been instantly suspended pending the investigation.

And again the SNU are supposed to be PSYCHICS for f**** sake!
So whatever possible way you look at it, skeptic or believer, they KNOWINGLY promoted and paid FRAUDS to work as psychics under the SNU banner!

The SNU are run by frauds, from the very top to the very bottom, and the Arthur Findlay College is full of them, as you well know!
Looking down their 2015 tutors list, I can spot a lot of proven frauds!

And the fact Glyn Edwards is still there AMAZES me! This guy was doubting the claims of other mediums he was working with!
This is the guy that had a meeting about a certain JD, and called him the biggest threat to Spiritualism since Houdini!
This is the guy that threatened certain mediums just for talking to JD!

That is the least credible part of the SNU.

And you as a fool have given them money!

So yeah, as usual I'm smelling of roses as always still 100% record, never been proven wrong!

Official Minutes from the NEC Meeting in April 2015 recorded:

Tim and Jeanette Abbott
Following the conviction of the Abbots for benefits fraud the NEC, after receiving their representations, agreed to remove their Individual Memberships with immediate effect and debar them both from membership for a period of five years.

Benefits fraud mediums must repay £180,000
or face prison sentences

... and they lose their SNU membership


Psychic News, September 2015 edition, reports:

Following their conviction for a benefits scam that is said to have extended over a 16-year period, husband-and-wife mediums Timothy and Janette Abbott have been removed from membership of the Spiritualists' National Union (SNU).

At a proceeds of crime hearing at Stafford Crown Court on 10 August, they were ordered to pay back a total of £183,450 they falsely claimed from British taxpayers.  Recorder Prof Martin Wasik ordered Timothy Abbott to forfeit £86,524 and his wife to pay back £96,926.

If they fail to do so within three months they will each face two years in jail.

Meanwhile       ....:

Timothy Abbott - whose courses include one on "Raising Standards" - continued to publicise his work as a medium and teacher throughout the period of his arraignment and trial.

He has since announced that he and two other mediums will be touring with a show called "The Awakening".
If he and his wife fail to repay their false benefit claims, they are likely to experience a rude awakening.

I did wonder who the "two other mediums" were that are going to be involved in this "show".
Someone called Charlie Kelly announces on FaceBook (on 8th August):

Exciting news!! 3 of Britains most evidential mediums Shaun Gray, Charlie Kelly and Tim Abbott have joined together to create 'The Awakening'
A phenomenal and evidential group of mediums that will be touring Britain as from the new year! Dates and venues will be announced in due course, but lots of people are already talking about 'The Awakening'! One to keep your eyes and ears open for guys

Yes, definitely keep your eyes and ears open for this "phenomenal and evidential group of mediums"!

"Pumping Irony" - Film first shown in Stafford Crown Court August 2015.

Tim Very Dim, (looking into his crystal ball): Hey, Janette. I can see here in my crystal ball that you're going to star in a secret film about pumping iron.

Janette Ladette : Is it a remake of that Arnold Schwarzenegger documentary from 1977?

Tim : Does he go to jail in that one?

Janette Ladette: No, it's a documentary, you dimwit.

Tim : Can't be that one then. It looks as though you are in a jail scene here. Hold on, it's going all misty again. No, the jail scene has vanished. It must have been cut.

Janette: Stop your nonsense now Tim. It's me Janette you're talking to, not some gullible victim you hoodwink. I know you're a fake, you swindler.

Tim: If I'm wrong on this one Janette, I swear I'll do 8 months in jail myself and I'll pay back all the benefits we've swindled. I tell you I could see you being filmed. It was there in my crystal ball before the picture faded away. We're going to be famous I tell you.

Extract from "Pumping Irony" - The shame of being caught.

Tim: I'll be back.

Tim Abbott's blog entry on the website of the Ershamstar School of Mediumship in Folkestone.
(The date of this blog entry coincides with day 1 of a 7-day residential course held at the School, where the tutors are the long-established working partnership of Tim Abbott and Sheila French):

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

A word from Tim
Wednesday, 23 September 2015

Hello and welcome

I thought now would be a good time to have a chat with you good people and I’d like to talk to you about practicing what we preach. For the last 3 years my previous financial shortcomings have been public knowledge, and indeed for the last 3 years I have been endeavoring to put right my wrong doings.

There have been those individuals and indeed organisations who have been publicly damming of me and possibly they have not practiced what they preach, however because of my wrong doings I have to accept their stone throwing. On the other hand there are those individuals and organisations both throughout Britain and abroad that have spiritually supported me whilst not condoning my actions ,and it is one of these centres that I wish to talk about.

Sheila French’s school of Mediumship, Ershamstar, has always had the philosophy that the student comes first and that the school is at all times nurturing and caring with each individual students spiritual and mediumistic growth, this approach has equally been extended to the tutors who work there i:e myself. There are times when Sheila and the school as a whole have been challenged because of their support for me, if we call ourselves spiritual and or Mediums we have to adopt a spiritual approach to life (Something I’m having to work on myself) and to our fellow man something Ershamstar and Sheila French have done for myself in abundance, and something that I will forever be grateful for.

As I deal with my experiences financially ,spiritually and mentally and put them behind me I look forward to the future and how I can continue to support individuals in their endeavor to spiritually and mediumistically grow. I am excited about the fresh changes that have been introduced to Ershamstar as always Sheila continues to encourage individuals no matter at what stage of their spiritual journey they are on, and indeed has introduced two tutors to the Ershamstar program.

The school encourages everybody to move forward and to learn and grow through life’s experiences, just as I also have been trying to achieve over the last 3 years. Let me end by thanking Sheila French for putting into practice what she preaches.

Psychic News - October 2015 issue reports:

'Benefits cheats featured on national TV'

Any hope that the case of benefits cheats Tim and Janette Abbott and their association with Spiritualism -both are practising mediums - would soon be forgotten was dashed by the BBC on 7 September.

The Abbots, who must repay £184,450 by November or face prison sentences (see PN September), were featured in the first episode of a new BBC1 TV series, Saints and Scroungers, titled Psychic Scroungers and The Boy Who Learns to Walk.

A large part of the 45-minute programme was devoted to the two separate investigations, using undercover surveillance teams with video cameras, which clearly demonstrated that both husband and wife were able to function perfectly normally and showed no sign of the physical disabilities for which they claimed benefits.

Several references to the Abbotts' connection with the Spiritualists' National Union (SNU) were made during the documentary but no mention was made of the fact that their membership has been removed and they cannot reapply for five years.

This loss of membership does not, however, prevent them from serving SNU churches. Psychic News understands that the Union is determined to change its rules so that none of its churches can allow a convicted criminal to be in a position of trust.

The programme can be viewed on BBC iPlayer: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

You have to laugh at the SNU and Psychic News.
They are as much frauds as the Abbots, yet they are happy to twist the knife!
Do they forget how they have covered up so many examples of fraud in their own churches over the years!
And even in the Psychic News, do they forget helping the SNU cover up the whole trumpet incident?

I could reveal some inner workings of the Psychic News that would shock even the most open minded of believers.
But I will leave that till the right time.

You know with me, I always hold something back.

In other news do you remember when The Psychic News wrote that lovely piece about me!

Man you love to churn stuff, Jon boy..... Must've been a quiet time for PN when they covered you. How far back was that?

About 5 years ago I think. They keep a close eye on me as do the snu. Although they'd never admit it.

They will be reading this for sure

mac wrote:Man you love to churn stuff, Jon boy..... Must've been a quiet time for PN when they covered you. How far back was that?

- That was all of 6 years ago! It was reported up here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Of course Jon had to come in and big it up! His first visit to this forum, as it happens.

There ya go lol.
Defending the psychics and people call me the big nasty skeptic

6 years? Jesus!

So anyone want me to expose the secrets of Derek's new show?

JDBP wrote:So anyone want me to expose the secrets of Derek's new show?

Not particularly lol.

Beats me what there can be to expose in Degsie's show anyhow. Unless he suddenly got a new guide called Colin . Now that I would love to hear.

JDBP wrote:So anyone want me to expose the secrets of Derek's new show?

No thanks - I couldn't care less.