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In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

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In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by Candlelight.kk on Sun 14 May 2017, 22:14

16 Jun 2016, 23:35

Maybe now people will sit up and start to realise what some of us have known for years ...

This new site sheds a little light on some dark goings-on ...

Caught on camera!
What really happens when you sit in the dark with Gary Mannion.
http://www.garyfiles.co.uk/

Discussion pages here:  http://www.garyfiles.co.uk/forum/viewforum.php?id=3

The only surprise here (for me) is just how this chancer has managed to get away with his blarney for so long.   

These guys were on to him from the start:  https://web.archive.org/web/20090113200910/http://www.ukskeptics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1229

And the Spiritlove forum had a thread that spanned just under 2,000 posts! - (and that was back in 2009!) 
https://web.archive.org/web/20111115124545/http://spiritlove.freeforums.org/locked-thread-gary-mannion-t306-1850.html

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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by mac on Sun 14 May 2017, 22:15

17 Jun 2016, 20:33

One thing that should happen now is for event organisers to be made aware of these recently posted videos. They can then decide for themselves if they want him performing. Without venues he'll have fewer places to practice his deceit, his deceptions. If organisers still want him to appear it's their decision.

And away from discussion forums such as this and SpiritualismLink, where it's also been discussed, how many will get to know about the videos, one wonders?
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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by Candlelight.kk on Sun 14 May 2017, 22:18

17 Jun 2016, 23:17

mac wrote:One thing that should happen now is for event organisers to be made aware of these recently posted videos.  They can then decide for themselves if they want him performing.  Without venues he'll have fewer places to practice his deceit, his deceptions.  If organisers still want him to appear it's their decision.
Agreed.  The whole thing should be aired and publicised in as many places as possible.  Furthermore, if any of those venues or event organisers decide to employ him regardless, then by association, they will just be serving to put a slur and questionmark on their own practices.


mac wrote:And away from discussion forums such as this and SpiritualismLink, where it's also been discussed, how many will get to know about the videos, one wonders?

Well of course a certain loquacious skeptic has gotten hold of the story, but has decided to put his own slant on the whole affair.

http://www.badpsychics.com/2016/06/gary-mannion-secretly-recorded-cheating.html

(I have to admit that in this instance, I am inclined to kind of agree with Big Gob's reasoning ..... to an extent  obgob      but  ... don't tell him that !! )   Mr. Green

ETA:
There is, however, a vital point here which seems to have so far been overlooked:
The venue where the secret filming was done apparently regularly plays host to a number of similar physical mediumship séances with various other physical mediums.  Are all of this venue's séances recorded as a matter of course and, if not, why not?  Surely, this would be the answer to the whole questionable practice of holding these séance shows in the dark - certainly the ones where money has to change hands to participate(?)

The Banyan Retreat has shown that it is indeed a practical and legal possibility to have such dark events filmed and thus made available for scrutiny.  Should this not then be a requisite proviso that anyone wishing to hold such a performance in that venue - or anywhere else, that the participants must first agree to have their performance filmed - and ideally for this filming to be officially overseen by an acknowledged individual or individuals neutral to the venue(?)  

That is the only way in which possible personal grudges or jealousies can be ruled out before making too fine a judgement when viewing these evidential confirmations of apparent fakery and trickery.  

Just a thought .....   innocent
What's good for the goose, etc .........

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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by mac on Sun 14 May 2017, 22:20

18 Jun 2016, 16:43

Well I don't consider Jon's website as similar to this and SpiritualismLink but that said in this instance any criticism by him is likely to be well founded. As to whether centres should insist on IR filming - failing white or red light's acceptability to a medium - that's something their audiences can ask for but committees can demand.

As long as physical mediums refuse to be filmed there may be suspicions about their mediumship. But as long as they get booked and get paid I don't suppose they'll care!
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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by Candlelight.kk on Sun 14 May 2017, 22:22

20 Jun 2016, 11:30

Correction to my earlier post:

These guys were on to him from the start: https://web.archive.org/web/20090113200910/http://www.ukskeptics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1229

And the Spiritlove forum had a thread that spanned just under 2,000 posts! - (and that was back in 2009!)
https://web.archive.org/web/20111115124545/http://spiritlove.freeforums.org/locked-thread-gary-mannion-t306-1850.html

It actually started in 2007 and carried through 2011 and onwards!

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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by mac on Sun 14 May 2017, 22:26

21 Jun 2016, 08:09


Based on what's happened to other performers who claim to be physical medium he doesn't have much to be concerned about. What's the old saying about there being no such thing as bad publicity?
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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by Misty on Sun 14 May 2017, 22:35

21 Jun 2016, 15:31

I dont think this will stop him. Lies come easy to Gary and he loves the publicity. Its never bothered him before and he has so many fingers in different pies he will just fall back on something else. One good thing though is that now some people who followed and trusted him blindly in the past are starting to say they feel now they been duped. These are people who had no reason not to believe him before. They are not the skeptics who always said he was a fraud they are his own followers, the word of mouth people who will pass it on to the places that matter. Now they have seen the proof and its not just some skeptic bleating on.
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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by Candlelight.kk on Sun 14 May 2017, 22:38

21 Jun 2016, 22:38

Well, it's definitely not gone unnoticed - in all the right places.
Even Michael Prescott has done a piece about it on his Blog:  http://michaelprescott.typepad.com/michael_prescotts_blog/2016/06/dnacing-in-the-dark.html .  Before this he had never even heard of Gary Mannion.

I just watched these videos. This is absolutely damning.

Gary Mannion's mediumship career is unlikey to recover from this, and whatever genuine abilities he has are now wasted.

And ..... I did hear on very good authority tonight - that there's a whole lot more yet to come out on that story ....   yes

Get the popcorn out, folks!   

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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by mac on Sun 14 May 2017, 22:39

22 Jun 2016, 08:54

I hope you'll be posting any new revelations here, kk?
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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by Candlelight.kk on Sun 14 May 2017, 22:42

23 Jun 2016, 01:48

Relative to this discussion on Gary Mannion:


Scott Milligan

I don't personally know anything about this guy, have not seen anything of his mediumship - have read a few catty comments made by certain self-promoting so-called "physical mediums" on the net - (Purely from my own observations formed through various discussions throughout the net in recent times. in the field of Physical Mediumship in particular, there does seem to be a great deal of what I can only view as bitchiness, jealousy, cut-throat competitiveness and showmanship.)   In that context, I cannot comment with certainty on the authenticity or not of any of the third-party comments I have seen in relation to Scott Milligan.  
However, I have discovered this FaceBook video which he made on 8th June, not too long before the damning outing videos surrounding Gary Mannion - and I listened with interest through to the end to what this guy had to say, nodding my head in agreement with every single word.  Very relevant to the current situation regarding Mediumship and Spiritualism in general, it is evident to me that this fellow is speaking intelligently, knowledgeably and genuinely from the heart on his views on the current sad state of affairs regarding Mediumship in our time.
I also happen to know quite a few well-established Spiritualist Mediums who are in complete agreement with the sentiments expressed by Scott Milligan here - and who are working very diligently but quietly in the background, in an effort to bring Mediumship (physical and mental) back on the right track.

Video: Scott Milligan - What's going on?  Are we moving forward or back?
https://www.facebook.com/scott.milligan.90/videos/10154315171088623/

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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by JDBP on Sun 14 May 2017, 22:44

23 Jun 2016, 10:12

I did get a bit of an inside scoop on who was behind the videos and why etc.
Also worth noting that Victor Zammit has removed his page on Gary from his site! lol (Hi Victor, you still lurking on here? Dont make me speak to your wife again!)

Anyway, this was all clearly a set up by Nicolas Whitham as I said on my site.
I have spoken to him via email, before I revealed it was him who was behind it all.
I knew exactly who he was and his involvement with the continuing fraud at Banyan Retreat, and I made it clear to him that I was only interested in Mannion, and not his crappy centre, I offered him the chance to tell the story from the "spiritualist" side, to explain how they wanted to rid this fraud from their centre and so on, Basically let him cover himself while further stitching Mannion up.

However he wanted nothing to do with me (I wonder why lol), so I decided to rip the videos and put the best bits on my site and instagram.
I then receive word from him threatening me with legal action, of course I told him to bring it, and silence ever since.

Now where things get interesting is due to the issues between Mannion and David Thompson. THAT is the true story in all of this, and the reason for this set up being done in the first place.

Whether or not that comes out proper will depend on if Mannion decides to take these issues public or not.

Regardless of all that crap, once again 100% proof that Mannion is a fraud, and once again 100% of every case of a seance being filmed with so called physical mediumship, it has shown fraud!

EVERY SINGLE TIME a camera has been used in a seance it has shown fraud, no exceptions, no anomolies, every single time!
No magical ectoplasm thrusting back into the mediums body causing harm, nothing!

Also if you read the truly hilarious comments on that Garyfiles forum, there is talk of the putrid smell of ectoplasm.
For people who dont know why people report on this smell, it is due to where the ectoplasm (cheesecloth) is kept on the medium! Usually in their arse or in their vagina (if a woman) This is what spiritualism has been for over 100 years, shoving things up your bum or fanny, then waving them around the seance room, so gullible idiots who have paid £50 can believe they are "witnessing" something magical!

Are spiritualists truly the dumbest of all cult members?

Hell even Scientologists dont shove stuff up their bum and wave it about in the dark!

Anyway if you guys want to know anything more about the Mannion stuff, someone at Banyan Retreat who was not happy with what Nicolas Whitham has done has been telling me some things, you know where I am, as I dont really log on to here, only did so now as I was curious as to what you guys had said if anything, had to google the forum, why was I thinking this was called Spirit Love Forum????? Ended up searching my own name and looking for a link.

oh and I liked "loquacious" skeptic. And yes of course you agreed with me KK, afterall you should know by now I am ALWAYS right!
Seriously 13 years now doing this shit, and still never been proven wrong about a single thing paranormal related! Thats gotta be a record!

ok, the great one is now leaving, as its bloody hot and I need a shower!

Boom!


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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by mac on Sun 14 May 2017, 22:46

23 Jun 2016, 14:46

It's always fun when Jon comes calling here.

I missed him as he's always good for a larf....

He'd lost the web address he says - add it to the 'Bookmarks' or 'Favourites' in your browser, Jon, so you can quickly find your way again when you're in need. boom, boom!
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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by Candlelight.kk on Sun 14 May 2017, 22:51

23 Jun 2016, 19:56

LOL - This entry in an Australian site called Starnow:  arrow   http://www.starnow.com/garymannion (advertising itself as 'Where talent gets discovered') did make me smile: (my censoring)


Gary Mannion
Actor, Model
Location New South Wales, Australia


My main job is Psychic Surgery and a Physical Medium I had a documentry made about me and my work in 2009 by the BBC. I would love to get more involved in TV, Theatre Etc.
More info on my media profile can be found at: [ ]

Acting experience:
•    No previous acting experience   

Languages
•    English

Accents
•    Irish
•    UK Cockney
•    UK English
•    UK Posh

Studied acting in high school and college also attended drama clubs for as long as I can remember. I had a BBC documentary made about me and my life in 2009 called Gary Young, Psychic and possessed, and I also appeared in a TV series called Man VS Weird

I hold demonstrations all over the world and am use to demonstrating in from of hundreds of people at a time.

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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by JDBP on Sun 14 May 2017, 22:54

24 Jun 2016, 16:01

mac wrote:
It's always fun when Jon comes calling here.

I missed him as he's always good for a larf....

He'd lost the web address he says - add it to the 'Bookmarks' or 'Favourites' in your browser, Jon, so you can quickly find your way again when you're in need. boom, boom!


No because I like the effort of having to try and find the forum when i get told I have been mentioned, or something like the Mannion story comes out.

If I bookmarked the forum, I would be here more and then all the woos would get their knickers in a twist and demand my beheading.
Bloody nazis the lot of you. All except KK, she is just one K short lol  very happy

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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by mac on Sun 14 May 2017, 22:56

24 Jun 2016, 18:46

Oh, Jon! You must be desperate comin' round 'ere again. Mind you, there's not much presently happening around the spooks scene so I guess we are both in much the same boat of sitting and waiting for something new and exciting!

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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by JDBP on Sun 14 May 2017, 22:57

25 Jun 2016, 09:15

mac wrote:
Oh, Jon! You must be desperate comin' round 'ere again. Mind you, there's not much presently happening around the spooks scene so I guess we are both in much the same boat of sitting and waiting for something new and exciting!

Yeah if not for Gary Mannion, there is literally sod all that is happening, psychic industry growth is pretty much non existent, which is good.

The sad thing is that the quieter my site is, the better I feel as it means less people reporting fraud, less people believing, and so on.
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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by Candlelight.kk on Sun 14 May 2017, 23:00

25 Jun 2016, 16:57

Another long thread from the (now closed) Spiritlove forum discussing the fraudulent Gary Mannion's shenanigans (in 2009) - salvaged from the Internet Wayback Machine:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140313003212/http://spiritlove.freeforums.org/locked-thread-gary-mannion-t306-1325.html

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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by JDBP on Sun 14 May 2017, 23:01

26 Jun 2016, 12:57

I was calling him a fraud long before anyone on this or any other woo forum
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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by Candlelight.kk on Sun 14 May 2017, 23:06

28 Jun 2016, 11:05

JDBP wrote:I was calling him a fraud long before anyone on this or any other woo forum

You call everyone a fraud - 100%!   Rolling Eyes


Actually, Gary Mannion's dark and shady activities first came to light on the UK-Skeptics forum, way back in August 2007 -

here  arrow  https://web.archive.org/web/20090113200910/http://www.ukskeptics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1229

Gary then joined the UK-Skeptics forum and joined in the discussion about him there.  Many questions were asked of him at that time, all of which he evaded (choosing rather to promote his website and thus his claims and supporting 'testimonials' at every opportunity) - and he then (by invitation) joined the Spiritlove forum - in an attempt to try and get the "believers" on his side.  That didn't happen, as the Spiritlove members were unanimous in their skepticism and observations where he was concerned. More UKS members joined SL and Gary continued, on both forums, to evade the various questions and challenges put to him at the time. 
 arrow  https://web.archive.org/web/20111115124545/http://spiritlove.freeforums.org/locked-thread-gary-mannion-t306-1850.html

Trading Standards were brought into the equation and Gary was given a formal warning and instructed to amend a number of testimonials and claims that he was making on his various websites (illegal claims about curing cancer - and other claims that his 'work' was approved and supported by various prominent medical people (whose names and qualifications he refused to verify).  An article in his local paper recorded at the time that his operations were being looked into.
Both the above sites have since closed - but evidence of the history of Gary's questionable operations can still be found if anyone chooses to investigate further.

When anything was queried further, he would simply evade the question and close down his latest website - and open another one somewhere else!  Many sticky fingers in many simmering pies ... (workshops, 'teaching' courses, 'healing centres' springing up all over the place).
Nothing much seems to have changed there to this day.  Only difference now is that the world now has irrefutable, tangible, visible evidence of some of his shenanigans .... (although some people, even now, incredulously still refuse to accept the blatantly obvious! ) 
I guess if people still continue to ignore the obvious after the latest video revelations, then that's really up to them!

As for the downright laughable Statements that are being filtered out from various sources by way of 'explanation' in an attempt to separate Gary and those that work with him from the blame of any wrongdoing ............    facepalm   ............

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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by mac on Sun 14 May 2017, 23:07

28 Jun 2016, 13:19

I took a look at the promotion he's carrying out of himself as a model and also at his events promotion website. In my view he's a fantasist but if others continue to buy into his fantantasies he'll be sitting pretty. It hardly seems to matter, either, if he's not the physical medium he appears to think he is.

As long as there are folk prepared to fund his aspirations he'll continue in a manner similar to what he's done for some years past. Discussions and debates surrounding his attributes going back to (apparently) 2007 don't appear to have cramped his style. The latest revelations don't seem likely to result in any different outcome.

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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by JDBP on Sun 14 May 2017, 23:10

29 Jun 2016, 16:38

Candlelight.kk wrote:

JDBP wrote:
I was calling him a fraud long before anyone on this or any other woo forum

You call everyone a fraud - 100%!  Rolling Eyes


Therefore I was right about him, as I have been about every single medium I have ever talked about.
Can you name one medium who has proven me wrong? Anyone? No?



This is me literally every day of my life
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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by Candlelight.kk on Sun 14 May 2017, 23:12

29 Jun 2016, 23:32

Extract from Psychic News - July 2016 edition, just out:

Nic Whitham, a former columnist for Psychic News, is co-owner and manager of the centre [Banyan Retreat] which filmed the Gary Mannion séance in question.

After viewing the video recording, Whitham did two things. He refunded everyone's fee for the event. And he revealed to Mannion that he had video proof that he had produced the phenomena himself.

His aim, he has explained to Psychic News, was to stop Mannion holding any more physical séances and to encourage him to return to his roots as a healer.

Whitham's actions and decisions, he added, had been taken in conjunction with spirit advice.

Mannion agreed. On 28 May, he flew out to Australia, where his company, Afterlife Agents, is based, having given an undertaking to Whitham that he would never hold physical séances again. And that should have been the end of the story.

Mannion's Australian advertising seemed to provide confirmation since it promoted only psychic surgery, healing workshops, trance demonstrations, one-to-one mentorship appointments, and psychic and mediumship appointments. There was no mention of physical séances.

But then word got back to Whitham that people he knew had just attended a physical séance with Mannion. There was only one action that could be taken and that was to make video clips public in the hope that they would reach the widest possible audience to make people aware of what had happened.

Equally as shameful is the revelation, made by Whitham to Psychic News, that Mannion asked him, via Facebook, to "name your price" for the video.

Whitham responded: "Gary - please do not judge me by your own standards. You have absolutely nothing that I want. I do this on behalf of the Spirit World and the thousands of people you have fraudulently taken money from over the past ten years or so."


It has also now become apparent that
"Despite accusations from sitters who may have been duped in the past, it is clear that Mannion's performance on 1 May did not require any assistance from others. It was a solitary enterprise."
It seems Mannion's co-workers and [at least some of] his closest friends were totally and literally in the dark about what was going on.

To read the article in full, Psychic News magazine is available in most branches of W.H. Smith and other retail outlets across the UK. Alternatively, you can go to http://www.psychicnews.org.uk/ and find out how you can download a copy of the online version of the magazine.

Additionally, Psychic News - August 2016 issue will carry a wide-ranging discussion of the Banyan Retreat séance and video recording, with input from leading Spiritualists and others who have attended Mannion's events.

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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by JDBP on Sun 14 May 2017, 23:15

30 Jun 2016, 10:45

Candlelight.kk wrote:

Extract from Psychic News - July 2016 edition, just out:

Nic Whitham, a former columnist for Psychic News, is co-owner and manager of the centre [Banyan Retreat] which filmed the Gary Mannion  séance in question.

After viewing the video recording, Whitham did two things. He refunded everyone's fee for the event. And he revealed to Mannion that he had video proof that he had produced the phenomena himself.

His aim, he has explained to Psychic News, was to stop Mannion holding any more physical séances and to encourage him to return to his roots as a healer.

Whitham's actions and decisions, he added, had been taken in conjunction with spirit advice.

Mannion agreed. On 28 May, he flew out to Australia, where his company, Afterlife Agents, is based, having given an undertaking to Whitham that he would never hold physical séances again. And that should have been the end of the story.

Mannion's Australian advertising seemed to provide confirmation since it promoted only psychic surgery, healing workshops, trance demonstrations, one-to-one mentorship appointments, and psychic and mediumship appointments. There was no mention of physical séances.

But then word got back to Whitham that people he knew had just attended a physical séance with Mannion. There was only one action that could be taken and that was to make video clips public in the hope that they would reach the widest possible audience to make people aware of what had happened.

Equally as shameful is the revelation, made by Whitham to Psychic News, that Mannion asked him, via Facebook, to "name your price" for the video.

Whitham responded: "Gary - please do not judge me by your own standards. You have absolutely nothing that I want. I do this on behalf of the Spirit World and the thousands of people you have fraudulently taken money from over the past ten years or so."


It has also now become apparent that
"Despite accusations from sitters who may have been duped in the past, it is clear that Mannion's performance on 1 May did not require any assistance from others. It was a solitary enterprise."
It seems Mannion's co-workers and [at least some of] his closest friends were totally and literally in the dark about what was going on.

To read the article in full, Psychic News magazine is available in most branches of W.H. Smith and other retail outlets across the UK. Alternatively, you can go to http://www.psychicnews.org.uk/ and find out how you can download a copy of the online version of the magazine.

Additionally, Psychic News - August 2016 issue will carry a wide-ranging discussion of the Banyan Retreat séance and video recording, with input from leading Spiritualists and others who have attended Mannion's events.



Questions that need to be asked. Why did Whitham film Gary in the first place? Are we really supposed to believe that all of this was because of advice from spirit? What utter ********.
Has Whitham filmed other fraudulent mediums at Banyan Retreat like David Thompson and Stewart Alexander, or do they get a free pass because they are his friends? If he has filmed them, then why cant we see the footage? Oh yeah because just like Mannion it would 100% show fraud.

Nic Whitham is complicit in this fraud overall, He is as guilty if not more guilty than the likes of Mannion, because Whitham not only was prepared to cover it up if Mannion agreed to not do seances any more, Whitham is also happy to cover up the actions of David Thompson etc who use the same gimmicks as Mannion.

How many seances has Mannion held at Banyan over the years? How much money has he made and in turn Banyan Retreat made from these seances, how about you refund all of this money too?

Now it also seems that Nic Whitham has no problem with Mannion going back to his healing scam, despite the fact that I recall one woman who DIED after she was supposedly healed by Gary of a terminal condition!

Nic Whitham clearly has no problem with Mannion scamming people, but the real reason he decided to expose Mannion was 100% selfish, and because a certain respected sitter had already threatened to expose Mannion and basically forced Whitham to do this.

So please no one think that Whitham is some kind of good guy in all of this. The Banyan Retreat is 100% complicit in this kind of trickery and they have been for as long as they have conducted these physical seances.

These are the questions that need to be asked, we already knew Mannion was a fraud, the videos only confirmed what we already know.
Whitham was clearly covering his own arse in all of this, he was HAPPY to cover it up and basically blackmail Mannion into not performing these seances any more, which in turn pushes up the value of seances by David Thompson and Stewart Alexander.

THAT is the real reason all this happened.
FACT
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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by Candlelight.kk on Sun 14 May 2017, 23:17

11 Jul 2016, 12:16

Incredibly, (and yet - unsurprisingly), Gary still continues to advertise HERE and run his various 'workshops' and 'demonstrations' in Australia and UK, including 'All Day Psychic Surgery appointments', Physical Mediumship 'experiments' , 'Discovering Guides' workshops and - most disturbing of all - "one-to-one mentorship appointments with Gary Mannion"!


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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by JDBP on Sun 14 May 2017, 23:19

11 Jul 2016, 15:37

And that is yet further proof of the true believer syndrome, as well as the idiocy of spiritualists and believers in the paranormal.

Gladly us skeptics and atheists, tend to not keep believing in something once it has been shown to be a lie.
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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by Misty on Sun 14 May 2017, 23:21

11 Jul 2016, 18:45

Gary might still be advertising on his own sites (Wallacia and Afterlife Agents), but are people still going to those advertised workshops?

It doesnt say how many came to a recent trance demo but looks like many couldnt make it. Gary blamed it on the weather, but was that the real reason they didnt go??
Gary Mannion
5 June ·

Thanks to all who came to the trance demo tonight despite the rain and flooding - we will be doing another one on wednesday night for those who couldn't make it. If you would like to attend just give us a buzz


And he obviously hasnt had a chance to delete these comments yet made on his facebook page
Jay Ann Gage
Shocked that you are still advertising after being exposed as a cruel and cynical fraud.
5 July at 16:00

John Simmons
Gary groper
29 June at 11:58

Mark Adams
Any chance off this update gary.seeing as you block everybody who questions you on Your latest scandal.
25 June at 12:06
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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by Candlelight.kk on Sun 14 May 2017, 23:23

13 Jul 2016, 08:45

Whiskers wrote:

And he obviously hasnt had a chance to delete these comments yet made on his facebook page
Jay Ann Gage
Shocked that you are still advertising after being exposed as a cruel and cynical fraud.
5 July at 16:00

John Simmons
Gary groper
29 June at 11:58

Mark Adams
Any chance off this update gary.seeing as you block everybody who questions you on Your latest scandal.
25 June at 12:06


Oh yes, he must have missed those ones!

By the way, I wonder if anyone has noticed (?) - in the video where Gary is pulling out people's chairs (the third video), at one stage, about half way through (02:32), a very visible ball of light sweeps quite fast but smoothly across the room from the right, hovers for a moment outside the cabinet and then appears to swoop into the cabinet. I wonder what that's all about.

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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by JDBP on Sun 14 May 2017, 23:27

13 Jul 2016, 09:55

Candlelight.kk wrote:
By the way, I wonder if anyone has noticed (?) - in the video where Gary is pulling out people's chairs (the third video), at one stage, about half way through (02:32), a very visible ball of light sweeps quite fast but smoothly across the room from the right, hovers for a moment outside the cabinet and then appears to swoop into the cabinet. I wonder what that's all about.


Oh thats 100% the ghosties! Definitely!



Anyway, hope you all being reading the comments on their forum, so funny, some utter idiot talking about a David Thompson seance, where Louis Armstrong comes through and sings. So funny how stupid people are.
Do you think they ever just sit down and think objectively about what they are paying large amounts of money to experience IN THE DARK!
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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by Misty on Sun 14 May 2017, 23:30

13 Jul 2016, 18:36

Candlelight.kk wrote:
By the way, I wonder if anyone has noticed (?) - in the video where Gary is pulling out people's chairs (the third video), at one stage, about half way through (02:32), a very visible ball of light sweeps quite fast but smoothly across the room from the right, hovers for a moment outside the cabinet and then appears to swoop into the cabinet. I wonder what that's all about.


I looked at it 3 times now KK. Its an orb! No way is that dust or a fly or insect. It goes straight to the cabinet and disappears. Spooky!

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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by JDBP on Sun 14 May 2017, 23:32

14 Jul 2016, 12:30

Whiskers wrote:

Candlelight.kk wrote:
By the way, I wonder if anyone has noticed (?) - in the video where Gary is pulling out people's chairs (the third video), at one stage, about half way through (02:32), a very visible ball of light sweeps quite fast but smoothly across the room from the right, hovers for a moment outside the cabinet and then appears to swoop into the cabinet. I wonder what that's all about.

I looked at it 3 times now KK. Its an orb! No way is that dust or a fly or insect. It goes straight to the cabinet and disappears. Spooky!

You see what you done now Cath! You made the forum 20% dumber, and I never thought that was even possible!
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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by Misty on Sun 14 May 2017, 23:35

14 Jul 2016, 14:06

JDBP wrote:

Whiskers wrote:

Candlelight.kk wrote:
By the way, I wonder if anyone has noticed (?) - in the video where Gary is pulling out people's chairs (the third video), at one stage, about half way through (02:32), a very visible ball of light sweeps quite fast but smoothly across the room from the right, hovers for a moment outside the cabinet and then appears to swoop into the cabinet. I wonder what that's all about.


I looked at it 3 times now KK. Its an orb! No way is that dust or a fly or insect. It goes straight to the cabinet and disappears. Spooky!


You see what you done now Cath! You made the forum 20% dumber, and I never thought that was even possible!


Instead of making smarty pants remarks, why dont you just say what you think it is JDBP? I genuinely dont have any idea of what else it could be and would like to know what are the possibilities and to hear from other people what their ideas are.
I personally rule out dust or insect, neither move in that way, so what else do we look at? why cant you just give us your ideas instead of being smug and smarmy.

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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by JDBP on Sun 14 May 2017, 23:37

14 Jul 2016, 17:57

Whiskers wrote:

Instead of making smarty pants remarks, why dont you just say what you think it is JDBP? I genuinely dont have any idea of what else it could be and would like to know what are the possibilities and to hear from other people what their ideas are.
I personally rule out dust or insect, neither move in that way, so what else do we look at? why cant you just give us your ideas instead of being smug and smarmy.


But you jumped straight to the paranormal answer without really being critical.
Your first explanation was literally the one explanation that it simply cannot be. The most impossible, improbable answer, that is the one you jumped to pretty much straight away.

This is why skeptics like myself will just face palm when we read opinions like yours, it is so damned ridiculous the lack of really basic critical thinking.

I could literally suggest anything in my imagination, and that would be more likely than your explanation of it being the first stages of spirit manefestation, (the Most Haunted explanation, which is who made the orb nonsense a popular thing)

Ok, I think it is a tiny alien, in a tiny spaceship, that unfortunately got picked up by the camera as it flew into the cabinet. That is my official suggestion at what it could be.

Oh and the alien is wearing snoopy pyjamas, a deer stalker hat, and a medalion with the logo of The A Team tv show on it.

This is what I think, and this is still more probable than your explanation, it is literally within the realms of science, however ridiculous, it is statistically more likely than your saying it is an orb

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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by JDBP on Sun 14 May 2017, 23:38

14 Jul 2016, 18:16

ps. Just looked, and it is a bit of out of focus crap in the air near to the lens, within the focal point which gives it its orb like appearance.
Probably a bit of dust or something floating on the air current in the room, Im guessing it was pretty hot in there lots of people breathing, and so on. Doesn't help the camera quality is crap, it is a digital video so lots of digital artifacts spoiling things too.

But as a photographic expert (18 years experience), I can say with 100% certainty it is not an orb, or an alien, it is just a bit of crap in the air, close to the camera lens.

Ok happy now? no need to call Captain Disillusion. It can safely be ignored.
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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by Candlelight.kk on Sun 14 May 2017, 23:40

25 Jul 2016, 16:10

At this link (strangely named gary saves the whalesdotcom ) :

The full 2-hour video has now been made available to view (for anyone that just might be interested, that is):

http://gary.saves-the-whales.com/
As we have been accused of hiding parts of the ‘show’, we have made the decision to release the whole of the video from before the lights go out to long after it ends. Take a look by watching this clip – but be warned it last over two hours and is extremely boring in parts which is why we took clips of the best bits. The reason this was not released earlier is because he would make excuses for all aspect but as he had not seen the full footage he can only make assumptions as referenced in his more recent tale of deceit and lies.
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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by Candlelight.kk on Sun 14 May 2017, 23:43

And a video entitled "Gary answers your questions" made by Gary on 23rd July



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BziW_wm6zkg&feature=youtu.be
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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by Misty on Sun 14 May 2017, 23:44

25 Jul 2016, 20:51

He comes across as so arrogant and not really giving a damn about anything.
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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by Candlelight.kk on Sun 14 May 2017, 23:46

28 Jul 2016, 09:29

The August edition of Psychic News is now out. The Gary Mannion story takes up six pages of the magazine but, despite the hype, reveals nothing new to add to that which is already available.

Introduction to the six-page article (entitled 'GARY MANNION EXPOSURE: THE DEBATE CONTINUES') states:
Banyan Retreat's decision to record the séance covertly has raised a number of questions, some of which have been received directly by Pyschic News via letter or email, while others have been posted on social media, notably on our Facebook pages and elsewhere.
To avoid repetition, we are combining them into this short list:

• Was Gary Mannion the first physical medium you have fimed?
• Why was he chosen?
• Were you not aware of the risks to the medium of using infrared?
• Will you now film all other physical mediums who sit for Banyan Retreat?
• And will you make all those videos public, as you have done with the Mannion tape?


It then goes on to say Nic Whitham, manager and co-owner of Banyan Retreat, had already agreed to provide Psychic News with the answers to these questions for this issue and they are contained in the following article ....

I have to say I do not see direct answers to any of those questions in these pages. What I do see, however, is an advertisement by the Banyan Retreat for a new website that they plan to set up "in order to help with general education and give a better understanding of our pioneers' achievements ..."
In that regard, the last two questions above have been incorporated in Nic Whitham's final paragraph:
We are currently working in conjunction with the spirit world to explore the possibility of recording all physical mediumship events here at Banyan Retreat. One of the avenues we are currently investigating is the use of thermal imaging. However, for the safety of the medium, we will not be pushed or coerced into creating and imposing man-made conditions on how any form of mediumship unfolds.
We will, in the fullness of time, share with everyone our progress in this matter.
Unlike infrared cameras and night vision viewers, thermal imaging does not emit any infrared light or any other form of energy into the space being filmed. Thermal imaging is a method of improving visibility of objects in a completely dark environment with no ambient light by detecting the objects' infrared radiation (such as body heat) and creating an image based on that information.
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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by Candlelight.kk on Sun 14 May 2017, 23:47

28 Jul 2016, 09:33

David Bruton, president of the Spiritualists' National Union, reports on the Gary Mannion affair in the August 2016 edition of Psychic News:

SNU PRESIDENT MINISTER DAVID BRUTON CAUTIONS CHURCHES ABOUT PHYSICAL SÉANCES ... AND TELLS OF HIS OWN EXPERIENCE WITH GARY MANNION

I watched with interest after the worldwide exposure via the internet of the "medium" Gary Mannion as a fraud, following the recently held "physical seance" at which he was covertly filmed. Infrared technology was used at Banyan Retreat to reveal what he was actually doing when the lights went out.

Personally, I have no sympathy for Mannion following this exposure. He has acted to dupe and manipulate honest people for personal gain and profit. These are not the acts of a true Spiritualist.

My concern is for the wider Movement and the untold damage caused to the reputation of Spiritualism internationally and to the many people, including myself, who have been conned by this man.

Last year, I received an invitation from the president of Stourbridge Church to sit in a physical séance with Mannion. Over the last 10 years or so I have sat with six or seven different physical mediums and am always ready to experience the work of different mediums in the field.

The séance was conducted in the upper room at the church and there must have been 30 or so people present on the evening. It was conducted in the dark, with loud music and the occasional use of red light, which conforms to the pattern I have experienced at other séances.

During the sitting, I was asked to stand in the middle of the circle to receive healing from the "guide". I certainly felt the touch of a hand and a presence standing behind me. But it is all but impossible, when subjected to the sensory deprivation of this type of séance, to assess fully what is actually experienced.

Towards the end of the meeting, I personally felt quite ill; it could have been the hot atmosphere of the room with so many people crammed closely together that caused this feeling. But in nearly 40 years in Spiritualism and as a medium, I have never before come out of an experience of working with the spirit world and felt this way.

The Spiritualists' National Union (SNU), some 18 months ago, issued a protocol for the conduct of physical séances at The Arthur Findlay College (AFC) and, as a result, no dark séances are held there without being recorded using infrared cameras.

At the time, this decision was considered in some quarters to be highly damaging to the Movement and the SNU.

The AFC and I, as its principal, received a considerable amount of vitriolic comment on social media from many quarters. However, I should also put on record the many letters and emails I have received, fully supporting this policy as an attempt to move the debate and practice forward.

Infrared cameras have been used in physical séances since the early 1930s with a view to applying a scientific approach to investigating Spiritualism. I find myself sceptical of the howls of protest from those who claim it causes potential damage to the medium.

I am proud to call myself a Spiritualist and I have no wish to conduct my chosen religion in the dark. If we are honest and true and have nothing to hide, surely the Movement should embrace new and old technology to test and develop the evidence the spirit world provides.

If physical mediumship cannot meet this challenge, perhaps it is time to consign its practice to history and remove once and for all the potential for fraud and fraudsters who do untold damage to Spiritualism and its reputation in a sceptical world.

As president of the SNU, I would urge seekers for truth everywhere, and particularly our churches, to take great care in the future when engaging mediums to conduct public or private physical séances.

I fully accept we cannot tar everybody with the same brush. But we need to put in place appropriate checks, when working with this aspect of mediumship, which will protect the innocent and further advance the understanding of the true message of Spiritualism.

Psychic News Mag 76 - August 2016
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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by Candlelight.kk on Sun 14 May 2017, 23:52

28 Jul 2016, 10:23

And ...
in the same issue of Psychic News - August 2016

(Note:  (This is the same Jay Gage who commented on Gary's Facebook (quoted by Whiskers above) 

Jay Ann Gage
Shocked that you are still advertising after being exposed as a cruel and cynical fraud.
5 July at 16:00


The article in Psychic News -August 2016 is headed:
MEDIUM JAY GAGE RECOUNTS HOW SHE WAS DUPED BY 'MATERIALISED SPIRIT'
"I'M DEVASTATED AND ANGRY TO REALISE MANNION WAS POSING AS MY DEAD FATHER"

I am a medium and run my own spiritual development and training business - Inspiral - as well as a not-for-profit spiritual centre, The Haven, in Grays, Essex.

I like to think I am fairly astute, having spent most of my adult time dealing with people on both sides of life!

I employed Mannion to work on one occasion, on a paranormal night, where his attitude and behaviour were not those that we would expect from an Inspiral group leader.  He also demonstrated psychic surgery at the Haven on two occasions, but on the whole I did not take to him on a personal level, and I did not offer him any further work.

However, earlier this year I began to hear quite astonishing reports about his physical séances and, because of my interest in physical mediumship, I attended twice.

The first time, he was fastened to the chair using cable ties (which I now know can be doctored to make them easy to slip off) and was sitting in a small tent.  There were several items scattered around the room, including a small table, trumpet and balls.

Sitters were searched at the door to the séance room and were told that they were not to leave without strict permission.

We were seated on a semi-circle of chairs surrounding the tent.  Some people were asked to move to different seats without explanation.

Soon after the séance commenced, the tent began to shake violently.  This was quite unnerving - even to someone with my experience of Spirit.  I felt something was not right - it felt hostile and angry.  I was concerned as to what was in the tent with Gary.  Of course, I now realise the shaking was for dramatic effect to conceal the very earthbound process of removing his restraints and leaving the tent.

Objects started to move

After some more loud singing, the evening began in earnest.  There was some appropriately spiritual waffle from one of Gary's "spirit team" who had a preposterous Irish accent, and then objects started to move around the room and luminous items were paraded in front of the sitters.

I then experienced a "spirit man" standing in front of me.  He appeared to be naked - certainly his top half - and he took my hand and ran it over his chest and belly.  He felt cool to the touch and a bit slimy.

The second séance was far more damaging to me.  The process was exactly as above, but then a disembodied voice asked for:
William - I have a William here or Bill (my father)
He wants to talk to Jackie (my real name)
He says he died two weeks before his birthday (true)
Your birthday is the 12th of April (true)
He wants to give you something to add to your collection

I was then aware of someone standing in front of me.  They took both my hands and I was under the impression that it was my Dad.  I was extremely emotional, as it was a recent loss and I idolised my father, so to have him here with me once again was beyond my wildest dreams.

My Dad then stroked my hair and face, and touched my knees ("he wants to give you healing").  I am a wheelchair user so do have pain in  my legs.

He then took both my hands and placed a small object into them, pressing my hands back together over the object, and the voice told me it was to add to my collection and not to look until I got outside.

I was sobbing, and indeed several other sitters were also in tears as it was such a moving experience.  The séance then closed as before.

Outside of the séance room, I looked in my hand, and there was the tiniest white feather.  I have a strong connection with feathers, as there were several strange occurrences with them during the time of my Dad's passing.  So it was a totally appropriate gift.  I took it home very carefully, and had it made into a pendant.

I now know that it was Gary posing as my father and I am devastated.  Not a day has gone by without my thinking about the incident, and feeling so angry at being cheated in such a cruel way.

Gary could have got the information given by "Spirit" from Facebook, which I am very active on, and I also think that he targeted me specifically (no-one else had anything like this in either séance I attended) as I have a large network of clients and contacts in the spiritual arena, due to running my business and working as a medium.

When I was sent the video clips of Gary cheating I immediately engaged him in a Facebook chat. [...]  As you can see,  he admits to having left the tent at the Banyan, but not at the séance I attended!  He was very evasive and I had to become quite repetitive in my questioning to get him to reply truthfully.

I am so angry and disgusted with Gary's behaviour.  I do not want to see this man giving séances again - he is a fraud and a very, very cruel fraud; preying on others to boost his own ego.

I am also horrified at the damage he has done to the Movement as a whole and to physical mediumship in particular.  It is disgusting that he feels this was appropriate.  Money and ego.  Hateful.

This is also the same Jay Gage who, back in 2009, posted very aggressively defending Gary Mannion: 
This was quoted from the Spirit Guides network site in reply to a post made by Spiritlove's 'Rainbows', who had tried to warn her about the fraudulent carryings-on of Gary Mannion - and after which she (Jay Gage) banned 'Rainbows' from that site!
Firstly, the refernce you make about bone marrow is from one of my postings, and taken our of context - please do not use inaccuracies based on my experiences for your own ends. Secondly, the fact remains I HAVE HAD NO BACK PAIN SINCE SEEING GARY FOR THE TREATMENT AFTER FOUR YEARS OF AGONY.
I am not an idiot, and I am not gullible, and as I think my postings indicate I was sceptical myself as to whether the treatment would work - I can only report what I have personally experienced. However I do feel that the links you posted from the (somewhat hysterical) UK Sceptics (thank God you arent still allowed to burn people at the stake that lot would have a field day) and the apparently rather misnamed "Spiritlove" forum are worth reading, only if to spot statements such as "Gary Mannion is a crook, liar and con-man. You know that. ". There are still libel laws appertaining to the internet you know, and if anyone had the audacity to post this about me I would sue their ass !!!! Keep your fingers crossed on that one !!!
I feel its apparent why you have joined this forum, and trust that the other participants will see your actions for what they are and not get involved.
Jay
( See  http://moh2005.proboards.com/thread/6451/gary-mannion-young-psychic-possessed?page=12 for more detail )

the same Jay Gage who advertised back in 2009 on the Spirit Guides network, where she had been enthusing profusely about psychic surgeon Gary Mannion who she had previously gone to see for healing with her back problem:
http://www.thespiritguidesnetwork.co.uk/profile/GaryMannion
At 8:48 on March 14, 2010, Jay Gage - Open Arms Haven said…
   EASTER SPECIAL WITH PSYCHIC SURGEON GARY MANNION !

    The Open Arms Haven in Grays is proud to announce a very special night
    with Psychic Surgeon - GARY MANNION

    Gary appeared on the BBC last year, in a programme called "Young. Gifted and Possessed" but to many of us, he has been a major name in the psychic healing world for some time.

    22yr old Gary channels his guide Abraham to effect some truly amazing results via "psychic surgery"

    Gary will be visiting the Haven on April the 4th, and will be working on platform from 7.30-9pm, during which time he will perform healing on selected audience members.

    DONT MISS THIS AMAZING EVENING - A RARE CHANCE TO SEE SOMETHING VERY SPECIAL AT WORK !

    SUNDAY 4th APRIL (Easter Sunday)
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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by Candlelight.kk on Mon 15 May 2017, 00:00

Psychic News (September 2016 edition) devotes 6 pages to the Gary Mannion Exposure.  Here's what editor, Roy Stemman, has to say:

GARY MANNION EXPOSURE

Medium caught on video blames his 'spirit team'
but won't allow us to question them

By The Editor

When we reported on Banyan Retreat's video exposure of Gary Mannion's "physical mediumship" I wrote in my Editorial that there were surely only two responses open to him: confessing to fraud and giving no further séances, or denying responsibility for what took place (PN July 2016).

As I suspected, despite the evidence and the expressions of disgust from around the world, particularly on social media, Mannion has now taken the second option.  In essence, he is saying that his spirit team controlled him in order to protect him from the infrared filming.

After a few weeks of deliberating on the best way forward, he has elected to take part in a 46-minute question-and-answer session (believed to be a sitter, Michelle Lucey) which he has put on YouTube.  Those interested in hearing what he has to say should search for "Gary answers your questions".

In a prelude a confident-looking Mannion describes the session as "my attempt to answer some of the questions" that have arisen since the Banyan Retreat incident.  He begins by denying he has ever used trickery in his work and he also confirms that he was not told the séance would be recorded.  He adds that his agreement to provide physical mediumship states that the séance must not be recorded.

Describing the Banyan Retreat event as "a set-up", Mannion says he has no memory of what took place from the moment he was tied into his chair until he was untied at the end of the séance.  He also says he completely trusts his spirit team: "They know why they do what they do".

The questioner puts it to Mannion that people present at the séance believed they were interacting with materialised spirit beings - "in short, they were deceived" - did he accept that?

Incredibly, Mannion responds: "I don't believe anyone was deceived ... From what Spirit has said in a previous statement there was plenty that happened on that night that was not picked up on the camera."

In effect, he seems to be alleging that his spirit helpers were treating the séance as an experiment to see what could be achieved under those conditions.

Clearly, the answers given by Mannion in the You Tube interview are meaningless since - if we take his explanation at face value - he was not consciously in the room or aware of what was happening whilst his spirit team used his entranced body to simulate physical phenomena.

I requested a response from Mannion via his Facebook immediately the Banyan Retreat posted the incriminating video.  He promised to reply but I received nothing from him, yet he has recently complained that our reporting of the events is one-sided, biased and has "twisted" his words.

After viewing the You Tube question-and-answer session it became obvious that the only answers that would be of interest to our readers would be those provided by his spirit team, who Mannion claims were totally responsible for the séance that was videoed.

I therefore invited Mannion, who was visiting the UK, to hold a trance session at which Psychic News could ask his spirit  helpers - we have to assume that they are actual beings and not as fake as the phenomena they produced - about why they did on the night in question.  I suggested that we videoed the session and made it publicly available so there could be no claim of bias or misrepresentation.

Having seen our more detailed reporting of the Banyan Retreat event and the reactions of various people who had previously sat with him (PN August 2016), Mannion declined to participate, saying our report was "not fair journalism - it's setting out to destroy me".  He added: "Why would I let you ask my team questions for you to twist what they say?  I will pass the articles on to my lawyer and seek advice."

Naturally, I'm disappointed not to have the opportunity to speak with Mannion's spirit team, but here, for the record, are some of the questions I would have liked to put to them:


    Why, when you discovered that Banyan Retreat would be filming the séance with an infrared camera, did you not announce this to the sitters and explain that you would either have to cancel the event to protect your medium or to simulate the phenomena by using your medium to move objects and create the other effects that always occur at his seances?Do you not understand that those who attended the session believed they would be seeing genuine phenomena and by faking it in the way you did you were guilty of deception?Why, if your medium was in trance and unaware of what was going on, as he claims, did he need to feel his way around the circle and in and out of the tent he uses as a cabinet?Why did you undress him and invite sitters to touch his body to create the impression that he was a materialised spirit being?How were you able to release him from the cable ties when, apparently, the infrared camera prevented the production of genuine phenomena, such as the movement of trumpet and chairs, all of which are seen being produced by your medium on the video?Clearly, the infrared camera made it impossible for your medium to produce genuine ectoplasm.  Instead, he is seen producing white material, putting it in his mouth, and pulling it out to different lengths in beween having a red light put on so that the sitters could observe different amounts.  Your medium must have been provided with that material before the séance and it must still have been on his person or hidden in the chair, after the session.  Was he not suspicious?  And how can you justify such trickery?


Those who continue to support Mannion need to give serious consideration to the issues raised in these questions.  But there's more that they should know.

Mannion was in Australia when he first learned, on 13 May, that his Banyan Retreat séance had been filmed covertly.  He turned to physical medium Scott Milligan for advice on Facebook.  They had known each other for a couple of years and Mannion had helped Milligan with his website in its early days (it is now hosted and designed by Banyan Graphics).

In private messages, when he learned Milligan had seen the video clips online, Mannion wrote: "I ****ed up".  Milligan advised him to tell his partner, Adam, and his circle leader, Teresa Muzzlewhite.  But Mannion responded: "I don't want anyone else knowing", adding, "No, they'll make the whole thing worse".  ( ** see Scott Milligan's live chat video below )

Milligan persisted, assuring Mannion that they would stand by him and give him strength if he confessed to them what had happened.

"I don't want Adam and Teresa to know how ****ed up the whole situation is", he replied, and then, after a couple more exchanges Mannion adds: "He doesn't need to know.  I'm never gonna sit again so it's something that never needs to come up".

After learning of the video, Mannion originally gave an undertaking to Nic Whitham at Banyan Retreat that he would not hold further physical séances and it was only after hearing that he had broken that agreement and had held a physical séance in Australia that Whitham put the video online for all to see.

Scott Milligan is so annoyed that Mannion has now made a video denying any responsibility for the faked seance, placing responsibility for it on his spirit team, that he has made public those private messages I quoted earlier, during a live chat on his Facebook page.

Despite the controversy surrounding his "physical mediumship", a statement on Mannion's Facebook page (29 July) indicates that he intends to carry on giving séances.

"I will continue working my way and documenting and showing what the team will allow.  If you don't like my work you don't have to come along.  Any more hurtful comments will be deleted and you will be blocked...
"This is not me trying to hide anthing.  I am simply fed up with all the bullying, harassment and being taken out of context."


Unfortunately for Mannion, it's difficult to take an infrared recording showing blatant fraud out of context and the more people who are made aware of that and the ensuing events the better.

**    
https://www.facebook.com/scott.milligan.90/videos/10154454559018623/  (part 1)
https://www.facebook.com/scott.milligan.90/videos/10154454511818623/ (part 2)
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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by Candlelight.kk on Mon 15 May 2017, 00:03

25 Aug 2016, 14:35

More from the September 2016 edition of Psychic News:

'We don't believe you,'
say former circle leaders

They challenge Gary Mannion's claim that his 'spirit team' faked the phenomena


We have already given three of fraudulent medium Gary Mannion's circle leaders the opportunity to express their shock and anger on seeing the covertly filmed video of the "séance" he held at Banyan Retreat in May (PN July 2016).

He is claiming that his "spirit team" were responsible for entrancing him and then using his body to create the effects of genuine physical phenomena, including a full-form materialisation which the video shows to be a near-naked Mannion.

Psychic News has now spoken again to these circle leaders, who have sat with him regularly, two of them for years, after they have had the opportunity to watch Mannion's You Tube Q&A session in which he maintains his spirit team were in control throughout.

Do they accept this claim?

No. They are unanimous in their responses which can be summed up in one sentence: "We don't believe you". Both Christine Parkin and Teresa Muzzlewhite are UK based, but Christine went to Australia with Gary to act as his circle leader for a while. Michael Mayo, who is US-based, also acted as circle leader in Australia for a short time.

Inge Crosson, his most recent circle leader in Australia, appears to accept the "spirit control" explanation.

The realisation that Mannion was producing "phenomena" fraudulently has been devastating for Teresa, who regarded Mannion not only as an incredible medium but also as a close friend. She still feels shell-shocked by the discovery and it has taken her two months before she felt strong enough to make her views public.

Here's what all three have to say:


Teresa Muzzlewhite
It's been very hard for me. I feel that I've lost so much. If he would only admit he was faking it I'd find it easier to deal with.

I was present at the Banyan Retreat seance that was filmed. When Nic called me to say they had a video that showed Gary faking it, I didn't believe him. I was certain Gary was in the cabinet throughout. I nearly never went to see it and the only reason I went was to fight Gary's corner for him.

Before going to see it, however, I called Gary, who was in Germany at the time, and told him there was a video of the séance. He replied, "Oh, I'm finished", I said "No you're not Gary, because you're not a fake, are you?" He never responded.

When I viewed the video, it was horrendous. I watched it for two hours and I kept thinking, "This can't be happening". I saw it was well rehearsed. And what you see in the video has been going on for a couple of years, at least.

You can see Gary sticking something in his mouth and moving it around before the red light comes on for everyone to see the 'ectoplasm'. So I asked myself where he got that from, because he's usually searched before a séance. It's either hidden on him or in the chair he often used when holding physical demonstrations in the UK.

I bought that old chair from a charity shop for about £15 and it is kept at my house. When I got back from seeing the video, I immediately checked the chair. When I unzipped the cushion I found inside a piece of very thin plastic material which looked suspiciously like the 'ectoplasm' I had seen. I showed it to a circle member and a very regular trusted sitter and they both agreed with me although, of course, I cannot say it is with 100 per cent certainty, unless it were tested, but it is suspicious. It is now kept somewhere very safe.

On his return from Germany I told Gary he needed to talk to me about the Banyan Retreat séance and I needed an explanation, something to help me understand what had happened, but he replied, "I'm not ready to talk about it". I didn't tell Gary or show him what I had found in the chair.

Now he has had time to think about it, he's claiming that his spirit team were controlling him during the séance that was videoed. I don't believe that. If they are able to allow matter to pass through matter [his claim to explain how he was released from cable ties and later returned] then why did they have to unzip the tent cabinet to get him in and out?

Thinking back to other séances with him, we always heard the zip being opened before a spirit apparently appeared. Also at his last séance at Brentwood, Essex, I could clearly see in the low light that his arm was out of the cable tie and was shaking the tent. At the end of the seance, when everyone had left the room, I told him what I had seen and said I couldn't understand what was happening.

His response was that he didn't know why Spirit would have done that and I should ask them. So at his next public demonstration I asked his guide, in a roundabout way, for an explanation of what I had seen and about which I was very unhappy.

I was told it was something Spirit was working on. I asked if I could tell anyone else about what I'd seen, he said, "No".

Another thing that struck me as strange at the time was that earlier this year Gary's 'spirit team' had asked me and Adam [his partner] to wear glow-in-the-dark shoelaces around our necks at the start of séances and later, during the proceedings, we were told to put them away.

When Adam asked why this was required he was told it was something that would be revealed at a later date.

Adam always sat on one side of the cabinet and I sat on the other. I realise now that they could have been markers for Gary, particularly in new venues, so that he could get his bearings in the dark.

Gary recently came to my home to collect his belongings and he asked me about the "ectoplasm" I had found in the chair. I had not told him about it, but had mentioned it to a couple of people and word had clearly got back to him. He said it was nothing to do with him and how did he know it wasn't a set up between Nic Whitham at Banyan, Scott Milligan, who has been very supportive of me, and myself.

I said, "I have spent the last four-and-a-half years of my life travelling around with you, putting my heart and soul into it for you, believing I was keeping you safe and alive, fighting your corner if need be, believing I was working with Spirit. Why would I want to lose all that?"

Sadly, I now have to ask myself the question: "Was this ever real and did he ever have an ability?" If I think hard about this, I have to say I believe that in the very early days before he gave public deomonstrations, then yes he had ability, judging by what ex-home circle members have told me.

I met Gary on his first public demonstration and started sitting with him at his early demonstrations. But things changed after a short while and he must have started to create his own phenomena.

The video of Gary faking phenomena has obviously upset many people. If it really was his spirit team producing the results, why would they hurt so many people by doing this? That's not the Spirit I've known and loved.

I don't believe his explanation. And as much as this has rocked the spiritual comunity and caused me and probably others to question their faith and beliefs, I know that Nic and Steve [Banyan Retreat's co-owners] did the right thing for the Spirit world. I'm grateful to them for doing what they did. It had to happen.

Fraudulent mediumship and playing with people's emotions and grief is never acceptable ever, in any way, shape or form.



Christine Parkin
I was initially shocked to see the Banyan Retreat video and I have now watched part of Gary's YouTube Q&As. The latter, I find too nauseating to endure in its entirety.

Gary, sitting in his public demonstration chair, in a darkened Wallacia séance room, displaying his all-too-familiar narcissistic tendencies, does not make for comfortable viewing.

His responses are garbled, repetitive and ludicrous.

I have challenged Gary on several occasions and found him to be evasive and unwilling to take responsibility for his actions. To deflect is to defend.
I know of several women who have stepped into Gary's life over the years, with whom he has shared his story of an abused childhood, dysfunctional family and, of course, his amazing spiritual experiences.

Sadly, we have all felt the need to nurture and support "the gifted one".

For the record, he has not contacted me since the video was released, neither is he likely to. If only he would put his hands up, admit his deception and move on, then we could all learn from the experience.

The trouble is, there are still people out there who are supporting him and don't realise the despot they are dealing with.



Michael Mayo
His claim that his "spirit team" used his body to produce the phenomena due to the use of infrared light changes nothing about my view of his mediumship.

He's been getting out of the chair since I checked it in November 2014 [in Australia] and there was no infrared that night.

How often does his "spirit team" get him out of that chair? It's just bogus. Anone who has a genuine understanding of Spirit knows they would never work this way.

Harmony and love are paramount to Spirit - they would not create all this upheaval and discord.

He's a fraud, he's been caught, and he needs to take responsibility.

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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by JDBP on Mon 15 May 2017, 00:05

25 Aug 2016, 15:59

All their reactions are hilarious to me.
The fact that some of them have been fooled for years and years and were never smart enough to figure it out, is all you need to know about spiritualists.
Not to mention that some people talk about "spirit teams" as if they are a real thing, is just incredible.

EVERY SINGLE physical medium show at Banyan since the very first one was faked. 100% faked. And us skeptics KNOW it is faked.
Do you know how we know? Because we are not complete idiots.
Not to mention the historical fact that in 100% of cases whereby such things have been filmed with night cameras, they have shown fraud, every single time.
No exceptions!

What you are also witnessing here is "true believer syndrome" whereby even after someone realises they have been fooled for years and years, they still talk about the subject as if it is a real thing, as if this is still possible. They cant even accept they are wrong about things.

I have been talking with people about physical mediumship for over a decade. I have heard every excuse imaginable. I am always told that spirit teams are working on conducting seances in full light, we are just a few years away. I have heard this from the very top of spiritualism.

You have circle leaders, really experienced spiritualists who were taken in, and conned year after year, and they still wont accept that it is a con, because to do so would be to admit that EVERYTHING they thought was real and fought for was a lie.

There is no such thing as physical mediumship, you see if there was we would know, there would be actual tangible evidence.
Right now the entire history of physical mediumship comes down to one simple thing.
Someone sits in the dark and is "convinced" Thats it!

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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by mac on Mon 15 May 2017, 00:06

25 Aug 2016, 20:55

Mannion has been exposed as a fraud. Perhaps he's always been a fraud, perhaps not. It's history now although many will rightly feel hurt and let down by it all.

As with all frauds his behaviour has been despicable, his attitude now is reprehensible. He deserved to be named and shamed. He's hurt and misled people who once had faith in him but he appears not to care. Those who used to support him must be in the depth of despair. He isn't unique and we must hope that all similar frauds are outed and rejected.

We should call on spiritual centres to cancel all future engagements thus avoiding any suggestion of endorsement of his approach and attitude.
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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by Candlelight.kk on Mon 15 May 2017, 00:12

25 Aug 2016, 23:46

mac wrote:
We should call on spiritual centres to cancel all future engagements thus avoiding any suggestion of endorsement of his approach and attitude.

The ball has already started rolling there...

Headline from one mirrors the sentiments of many (and in fact this was already the case in many of the Spiritualist churches in the UK where Gary Mannion was concerned) long before any of this came about.

'He will never set foot in our church again'

When Laraine Killarney, president of Stourbridge Spiritualist Church, West Midlands, learned from Psychic News at the beginning of August that a rumour was circulating that the church would continue to engage Gary Mannion for physical séances, she was outraged.


"That is totally untrue", she replied, "I can assure you Gary Mannion will never set foot in our church, ever again.

"Stourbridge hosted Gary Mannion several times, purely for psychic healing at the start. Once we knew his 'physical mediumship' was proven to be a con, everything was cancelled and he will never be coming to our church again.

"We don't have any contact with him now. I don't want to know any con merchant at all, particularly one who has done so much damage to Spiritualism."

It was at Stourbridge that SNU president Minister David Bruton experienced Mannion's "physical mediumship". His account of that event appeared in PN August 2016 issue.

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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by mac on Mon 15 May 2017, 00:14

26 Aug 2016, 06:16

That's a great start.

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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by JDBP on Mon 15 May 2017, 00:15

26 Aug 2016, 08:22

Great start? Its hardly a start at all!
How about banning ALL physical mediumship, and condemning any medium who does it, and then banning that medium from appearing in your church under any circumstances, unless physical mediumship is recorded in FULL LIGHT.

After every major exposure or damaging event in spiritualism, its the same old thing.

faked physical mediumship is still going on at Banyan and in full knowledge of Nic and the people "in the know"

Only an absolute gullible fool would believe in physical mediumship in the first place when all evidence is presented IN THE FREAKING DARK!
But then the gullible fool is kind of the exact kind of customer that spiritualism needs and wants.

As for Laraine Killarney, she can act as outraged as she wants, but fact remains she knowingly allows and promotes frauds at Stourbridge church!

That is my largest problem with all of this, the hypocrisy, and damage control from all corners, the truth is that Mannion is probably the person to blame the least for his fraud!

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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by mac on Mon 15 May 2017, 00:22

26 Aug 2016, 11:54

JDBP wrote:Great start? Its hardly a start at all!
How about banning ALL physical mediumship, and condemning any medium who does it, and then banning that medium from appearing in your church under any circumstances, unless physical mediumship is recorded in FULL LIGHT.
Jon you need to sort yourself out.  Isn't it a nonsense for you to be demanding anything from anyone when your position is that all mediumship is fake?  Speaking about 'mediums' when you don't accept there are any is also illogical.

JDBP wrote:After every major exposure or damaging event in spiritualism, its the same old thing.
But you don't care anyway!

JDBP wrote:...faked physical mediumship is still going on at Banyan and in full knowledge of Nic and the people "in the know"
To you ALL claimed mediumship is fake so what's special about Banyan?

JDBP wrote:Only an absolute gullible fool would believe in physical mediumship in the first place when all evidence is presented IN THE FREAKING DARK!
But then the gullible fool is kind of the exact kind of customer that spiritualism needs and wants.

As for Laraine Killarney, she can act as outraged as she wants, but fact remains she knowingly allows and promotes frauds at Stourbridge church!

To you all mediumship is fake so why single out physical mediumship?

That is my largest problem with all of this, the hypocrisy, and damage control from all corners, the truth is that Mannion is probably the person to blame the least for his fraud!
Why do YOU have any problem with others' failings as you consider them?  Others carry responsibility if they've failed to act appropriately but you are in no special position to judge their motives.  Blame for the fraud is, however, the responsibility of Mannion and anyone who knowingly supported him in that fraud.

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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by JDBP on Mon 15 May 2017, 00:25

26 Aug 2016, 12:18

mac wrote:Jon you need to sort yourself out.  Isn't it a nonsense for you to be demanding anything from anyone when your position is that all mediumship is fake?  Speaking about 'mediums' when you don't accept there are any is also illogical.

You are really saying that my opinion is a nonsense because I dont believe? You use the word nonsense when talking about mediumship and a skeptic, and the skeptic is the one you are using the word nonsense towards! lol.

OBVIOUSLY its all fake, and to demand anything of course its silly, I KNOW THAT< I am making a point to try and show believers how ridiculous the whole thing is, and that the fact that such demands are NOT being made by those on the inside, shows that they all know its a con.

Damn for a 70 year old man Keith you aint that bright sometimes!

JDBP wrote:After every major exposure or damaging event in spiritualism, its the same old thing.
  
But you don't care anyway!

I do care though, over a decade of exposing frauds, and helping victims of frauds proves I care, and if my voice starts a debate then it is worth doing.
You are someone who doesn't care, from the fact you have contributed to a fraudulent industry and have never done a single thing to expose it, or help victims.

At least I am hated by the frauds because i am a threat to them, remind me again why you are hated by everyone?

JDBP wrote:...faked physical mediumship is still going on at Banyan and in full knowledge of Nic and the people "in the know"
 
To you ALL claimed mediumship is fake so what's special about Banyan?

Well for a start it is the topic of conversation regarding where Mannion got caught out, plus it hosts other fake mediums like David Thompson and they cover up his fraud clearly, since no videos of him have emerged! Funny that!

JDBP wrote:Only an absolute gullible fool would believe in physical mediumship in the first place when all evidence is presented IN THE FREAKING DARK!
But then the gullible fool is kind of the exact kind of customer that spiritualism needs and wants.

As for Laraine Killarney, she can act as outraged as she wants, but fact remains she knowingly allows and promotes frauds at Stourbridge church!
 

 To you all mediumship is fake so why single out physical mediumship?

Because when physical mediumship is exposed, even believers tend to accept the truth, because it is right there in front of them in video format.
If I expose a mental medium, then you can get all manner of excuses like
"they were having a bad day"
"mediums cant perform on demand"
"Thats only your opinion"
"there is no way they could have known blah blah blah when I got a reading"

And so on, the excuses are endless, however only a real real idiot defends a physical medium when they get caught cheating.
I loved the excuses I heard after Colin Fry got caught cheating, the cover up by the Psychic News back then was hilarious, and that was after they broke the story too.

  That is my largest problem with all of this, the hypocrisy, and damage control from all corners, the truth is that Mannion is probably the person to blame the least for his fraud![/quote]

Why do YOU have any problem with others' failings as you consider them?  Others carry responsibility if they've failed to act appropriately but you are in no special position to judge their motives. [/quote]

I disagree, I am perfectly position to judge their motives, since I am the single most knowledgeable and experienced person in the genre in the UK. No one comes close to me, seriously ego aside, can you name one person in the UK who even comes close to my knowledge and experience on this subject?

Blame for the fraud is, however, the responsibility of Mannion and anyone who knowingly supported him in that fraud.

So Banyan are to blame then, especially as they were blackmailing Mannion, and were happy to COVER IT UP as long as Mannion did what they said, everyone seems to miss that one very important point dont they!
Not me, you cant get anything past me!
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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by Candlelight.kk on Mon 15 May 2017, 00:29

26 Aug 2016, 14:29

I made an edit to my post above re the Psychic News article.  (Not an edit to the article, I hasten to add! - that is reported word-for-word - but an add-in where I made reference (by asterisk) to two live chat videos made by Scott Milligan). 
Just to say that the one marked (Part 2) is the wrong video, and not related.

Here is the one that I should have made reference to:  https://www.facebook.com/scott.milligan.90/videos/10154353374713623/

This is quite a lovely video, as Scott's cat makes its presence known the whole way through 😁 (the first half) - kind of like it's presenting the video with him!   Such a gorgeous cat - and it's just the image of my lovely Pepsi who passed away a couple of years ago.
Specially funny is the cat's reaction when Scott uses the word 'catastrophic'.  rofl    Watch out for that bit - it's hilarious.

Apart from that, I'm finding that I really enjoy listening to this guy's interesting live chat videos.  I like the subjects that he covers and he does seem to know what he's talking about.

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Re: In the dark with Gary Mannion (finally exposed as FRAUD)

Post by mac on Mon 15 May 2017, 00:55

26 Aug 2016, 14:46

JDBP wrote:
mac wrote:Jon you need to sort yourself out.  Isn't it a nonsense for you to be demanding anything from anyone when your position is that all mediumship is fake?  Speaking about 'mediums' when you don't accept there are any is also illogical.

You are really saying that my opinion is a nonsense because I dont believe? You use the word nonsense when talking about mediumship and a skeptic, and the skeptic is the one you are using the word nonsense towards! lol.

No that's not what I'm saying.  I wrote what I intended to say.

JDBP wrote:OBVIOUSLY its all fake, and to demand anything of course its silly, I KNOW THAT< I am making a point to try and show believers how ridiculous the whole thing is, and that the fact that such demands are NOT being made by those on the inside, shows that they all know its a con.
We here, and others elsewhere, do understand what you believe to be the situation based on your experience.  Your bluster is seen for what it is - bluster.  You enjoy your chosen stance and will probably maintain it through thick and thin - kudos!  Generalisation is your forté - bully for you but we can see through it.  No matter....

JDBP wrote:Damn for a 70 year old man Keith you aint that bright sometimes!
I don't need to be bright, I'm only 69 and although my 10K performance has slowed, my mental capacity hasn't.  And there's really no need to try to be hurtful, Jon.  We can disagree without that.

JDBP wrote:After every major exposure or damaging event in spiritualism, its the same old thing.
  
But you don't care anyway!

JDBP wrote:I do care though, over a decade of exposing frauds, and helping victims of frauds proves I care, and if my voice starts a debate then it is worth doing.
I have never said say you don't care about exposing fraud but you don't care about its impact on Spiritualism - you mentioned it in that context.

JDBP wrote:You are someone who doesn't care, from the fact you have contributed to a fraudulent industry and have never done a single thing to expose it, or help victims.
So I contribute to a fraudulent industry do I Jon boy?  interesting....

JDBP wrote:At least I am hated by the frauds because i am a threat to them, remind me again why you are hated by everyone?

So I'm hated by everyone?  Oh you so know how to hurt!  I'm glad though that you're hated by frauds as they deserve all you give them.

JDBP wrote:...faked physical mediumship is still going on at Banyan and in full knowledge of Nic and the people "in the know"
 
To you ALL claimed mediumship is fake so what's special about Banyan?

JDBP wrote:Well for a start it is the topic of conversation regarding where Mannion got caught out, plus it hosts other fake mediums like David Thompson and they cover up his fraud clearly, since no videos of him have emerged! Funny that!

It's your position that there are no genuine mediums, Jon, so what's a "fake medium"?  Banyan isn't special because - using your approach - EVERY single venue must surely be equally culpable and equally deserving of your ire. 

JDBP wrote:Only an absolute gullible fool would believe in physical mediumship in the first place when all evidence is presented IN THE FREAKING DARK!
But then the gullible fool is kind of the exact kind of customer that spiritualism needs and wants.

As for Laraine Killarney, she can act as outraged as she wants, but fact remains she knowingly allows and promotes frauds at Stourbridge church!
 
To you all mediumship is fake so why single out physical mediumship?

JDBP wrote:Because when physical mediumship is exposed, even believers tend to accept the truth, because it is right there in front of them in video format.
If I expose a mental medium, then you can get all manner of excuses like
"they were having a bad day"
"mediums cant perform on demand"
"Thats only your opinion"
"there is no way they could have known blah blah blah when I got a reading"
ALL mediumship is fake, Jon, according to you.  Differences are meaningless if all is fraud.

JDBP wrote:And so on, the excuses are endless, however only a real real idiot defends a physical medium when they get caught cheating.
I loved the excuses I heard after Colin Fry got caught cheating, the cover up by the Psychic News back then was hilarious, and that was after they broke the story too.

That is my largest problem with all of this, the hypocrisy, and damage control from all corners, the truth is that Mannion is probably the person to blame the least for his fraud!

Why do YOU have any problem with others' failings as you consider them?  Others carry responsibility if they've failed to act appropriately but you are in no special position to judge their motives.

JDBP wrote:I disagree, I am perfectly position to judge their motives, since I am the single most knowledgeable and experienced person in the genre in the UK. No one comes close to me, seriously ego aside, can you name one person in the UK who even comes close to my knowledge and experience on this subject?
You are knowledgeable and experienced in a narrow field of expertise I readily accept but that doesn't put you in a special position to judge someone's motives.

Blame for the fraud is, however, the responsibility of Mannion and anyone who knowingly supported him in that fraud.

JDBP wrote:So Banyan are to blame then, especially as they were blackmailing Mannion, and were happy to COVER IT UP as long as Mannion did what they said, everyone seems to miss that one very important point dont they!
Not me, you cant get anything past me!
We can all judge for ourselves who deserves blame.  You're not unique in seeing where it should lie.

    Current date/time is Sun 19 Nov 2017, 06:34