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what's its value?

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what's its value?

Post by mac on 19th September 2017, 14:13

I know I'm fortunate because I don't need reassurance about survival.  Elsewhere, though, I encounter individuals who do.  They come in dire need of it but with nowhere to go - literally.  

They live in countries where there isn't the network of Spiritualist churches and centres we enjoy here in the UK.  Especially peculiar that's the case where Modern Spiritualism has its roots - the USA.  Less so, perhaps, elsewhere.  Even in the UK, though, "fings ain't wot they used to be" and Spiritualist mediumship isn't either.

On another website, in other forums, I 'meet' members desperate about the loss of a loved one. I hesitate to suggest Spiritualist teachings as a way to grasp the fundamentals.  Not because I've 'lost my faith' but because what's missing is the very thing that sets Modern Spiritualism apart from all the others; good standards of evidential mediumship provided by experienced practitioners.

If there isn't someone who can offer personal evidence of the survival of a loved one when that's what's most needed, what does Spiritualism have to offer other than belief, something that's anathema to me.

At a time when modern technology enables us to communicate with folk around the world we find ourselves less able to provide evidence of survival through mediumship than was the situation half a century and more ago.
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Re: what's its value?

Post by Candlelight on 19th September 2017, 16:14

@mac wrote:
At a time when modern technology enables us to communicate with folk around the world we find ourselves less able to provide evidence of survival through mediumships than was the situation half a century and more ago.

On the contrary - half a century ago, the practice of Spiritualism/Mediumship was an underground activity confined to the parlours and secret venues of an elite portion of society.  Modern technology has proved intrinsically instrumental in demystifying the essentials of Spiritualism by bringing Mediumship into the homes and lives of ordinary people.
The advent of TV, in particular (with the involvement of people like Doris Stokes, etc) aided greatly in bringing awareness (and with it comfort and hope) to people all over the world.
There are folk who maintain that physical mediumship and its accompanying phenomena is the only worthwhile form of "evidential mediumship".  I disagree, wholeheartedly, with this notion.
I think the problem arises (if there is one) when we try to break down all the various facets of mediumship and put them into separate boxes and compartments, i.e. Physical, Mental, Healing, etc.  True Mediumship (thus, Spiritualism) is an amalgamation of many of these aspects which when added together, can result in the much sought-after "evidence".

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Re: what's its value?

Post by mac on 19th September 2017, 17:33

Shows how differently we see the situation...
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Re: what's its value?

Post by Candlelight on 19th September 2017, 18:18

@mac wrote:Shows how differently we see the situation...

How so?

I am not aware that we (you and I) see matters of mediumship all that differently.
What exactly do you mean by "the situation" ?

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Re: what's its value?

Post by mac on 19th September 2017, 18:43

Candlelight.kk wrote:
@mac wrote:Shows how differently we see the situation...

How so?

I am not aware that we (you and I) see matters of mediumship all that differently.
What exactly do you mean by "the situation" ?
Your opening words in posting #2 were: "On the contrary...."   That gave me the impression you didn't see things as I do.  You went on to say "Modern technology has proved intrinsically instrumental in demystifying the essentials of Spiritualism by bringing Mediumship into the homes and lives of ordinary people.".

Yours is a different perspective from mine.
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Re: what's its value?

Post by Candlelight on 19th September 2017, 23:00

@mac wrote:
Candlelight.kk wrote:
@mac wrote:Shows how differently we see the situation...

How so?

I am not aware that we (you and I) see matters of mediumship all that differently.
What exactly do you mean by "the situation" ?
Your opening words in posting #2 were: "On the contrary...."   That gave me the impression you didn't see things as I do.  You went on to say "Modern technology has proved intrinsically instrumental in demystifying the essentials of Spiritualism by bringing Mediumship into the homes and lives of ordinary people."

We could well be talking at cross-purposes here.  My "On the contrary..." was directed at your stated view - that "we find ourselves less able to provide evidence of survival through mediumship than was the situation half a century and more ago".  I don't find that to be the case.  

There is much more widespread awareness and knowledge of, and indeed, interest in, the concept of Mediumship nowadays, because modern technology has enabled the knowledge to become more readily available to the masses, rather than being kept hidden away in darkened rooms.  Is not the overall aim of Mediumship practice to help provide awareness of our survival after death?  To provide closure, comfort and hope to those who are bereaved and in despair over the loss of a loved one, or to provide some form of understanding, solace, comfort and preparation when the time comes to make their own goodbyes?  Technology has helped to spread this awareness so much further afield - and Mental Mediumship can do this on a far greater scale, reaching audiences that may not even be aware that there are people sitting "in Circle", experimenting for many years, who are fully aware of the concept of survival.  This is indeed essential and beneficial work for the Spiritualist Movement, for sure, but isn't in itself directly helping the bereaved and desolate and scared.   Physical Mediumship is not available to all and sundry, and many folk will never get the chance throughout their lives to witness this form of survival.  There are plenty who would not wish to! Nor indeed do they need to.  

@mac wrote:Yours is a different perspective from mine.

Possibly - but my perspective is not just concerning one particular, unquantified and indefinable situation - there are so many different 'situations' to consider, all uniting and blending under the umbrella of 'Spiritualism' ....

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Re: what's its value?

Post by mac on 20th September 2017, 06:42

I wrote:

"I know I'm fortunate because I don't need reassurance about survival.  Elsewhere, though, I encounter individuals who do.  They come in dire need of it but with nowhere to go - literally.  


They live in countries where there isn't the network of Spiritualist churches and centres we enjoy here in the UK.  Especially peculiar that's the case where Modern Spiritualism has its roots - the USA."

This is the situation as I find it.  I have found that talking about the philosophy and religion of Modern Spiritualism with its 'promise' of evidence of survival via communication through mediumship doesn't work for them for the reason I mention in the paragraph above.

It seems there are some good mediums but charges can be very high and finding a good medium can be harder even than in the UK because they're perhaps fewer and are certainly more far between.  Phone consultations may be more practical elsewhere because they're easier to find than a face-to-face sitting but that's my guess and I have no data to prove it.
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Re: what's its value?

Post by Misty on 21st September 2017, 22:24

@mac wrote:Phone consultations may be more practical elsewhere because they're easier to find than a face-to-face sitting but that's my guess and I have no data to prove it.

I dont see the point in mediumship phone readings.  I dont quite 'get' how they can work.

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Re: what's its value?

Post by mac on 22nd September 2017, 07:21

@Misty wrote:
@mac wrote:Phone consultations may be more practical elsewhere because they're easier to find than a face-to-face sitting but that's my guess and I have no data to prove it.

I dont see the point in mediumship phone readings.  I dont quite 'get' how they can work.
If it's all you can find you don't have many choices - effectively take it or leave it.  

A phone session works, of course, in a similar way to any other mediumship albeit perhaps not quite as fluently.  (I don't like the word 'reading' because it sounds too much like psychic reading) 

I don't know that, however, as I've not tried distant mediumship.  Whether the technique is better or worse than 'same location' mediumship will partly hinge upon the medium and the spirit contacts that result.  

My gut feeling is that I'd personally prefer 'same location' mediumship but if a remote practitioner were able to provide a level of evidence satisfactory for me I'd be happy.
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Re: what's its value?

Post by Candlelight on 22nd September 2017, 17:02

@Misty wrote:
@mac wrote:Phone consultations may be more practical elsewhere because they're easier to find than a face-to-face sitting but that's my guess and I have no data to prove it.

I dont see the point in mediumship phone readings.  I dont quite 'get' how they can work.

There are many different ways in which Spirit can get their message through to those of us still living.  

@mac wrote:If it's all you can find you don't have many choices
And sometimes the choice may not necessarily even be yours - but ingeniously engineered by Spirit through whatever means are available.

One fine example involving the telephone springs to my mind, in connection with Spiritualist Medium, Albert Best.

Albert Best was a postman and a world famous Spiritualist Medium. He was also the uncle of footballer George Best.
Ann Kennedy was the wife of a Church of Scotland minister called the Rev. David Kennedy.

Ann Kennedy died while she was still in her forties.

Before Ann had died she had promised to try to find a way to contact her husband from beyond the grave.

Although it was against his religion, the Rev. David Kennedy contacted a Medium called Lexie Findletter. Lexie told David that Ann was trying to communicate with him.

A week later David was asleep at home. He was awoken by the sound of the phone ringing. He looked at the clock on the wall. He realised that he only had five minutes to prepare his sermon and find a clean collar. He lifted up the phone.

"Your wife Ann is with me," said a voice. "She tells me that your clean collars are in a bottom drawer of your wardrobe and the speech you prepared last year for this service is in the top drawer of your desk. Incidentally, my name is Albert Best."

David looked in the bottom drawer of the wardrobe and found the three clean collars.

Albert went on to say that Ann told him to tell David that he (David) needed to send to the laundry the 23 soiled collars which he had already accumulated in a special box where he kept his collars. When David counted the number of collars in his box, there were 23 in all.

More messages reached David in the days that followed. On one occasion Albert said that Ann had asked him to tell David to phone Ann's sister and ask about the ballet shoes. When David did so, Ann's sister was astounded that he knew about the private joke that had been a secret between Ann and her sister.





Sources:

Gordon Smith, The Unbelievable Truth (2005)

David Kennedy, A Venture in Immortality (Colin Smythe, 1973).

From pierrejoubert.blogspot
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Re: what's its value?

Post by Candlelight on 22nd September 2017, 17:15

@mac wrote:My gut feeling is that I'd personally prefer 'same location' mediumship but if a remote practitioner were able to provide a level of evidence satisfactory for me I'd be happy.


You got in before me there, mac! This was my intended response - word-for-word!

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Re: what's its value?

Post by mac on 22nd September 2017, 20:03

Candlelight.kk wrote:
@mac wrote:My gut feeling is that I'd personally prefer 'same location' mediumship but if a remote practitioner were able to provide a level of evidence satisfactory for me I'd be happy.


You got in before me there, mac!  This was my intended response - word-for-word!
Is that a situation of great-minds-think-alike or a fools-seldom-differ one!? 

lol very happy Mr. Green gigle

mac
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Re: what's its value?

Post by mac on 22nd September 2017, 20:10

Candlelight.kk wrote:
@Misty wrote:
@mac wrote:Phone consultations may be more practical elsewhere because they're easier to find than a face-to-face sitting but that's my guess and I have no data to prove it.

I dont see the point in mediumship phone readings.  I dont quite 'get' how they can work.

There are many different ways in which Spirit can get their message through to those of us still living.  

@mac wrote:If it's all you can find you don't have many choices
And sometimes the choice may not necessarily even be yours - but ingeniously engineered by Spirit through whatever means are available.

One fine example involving the telephone springs to my mind, in connection with Spiritualist Medium, Albert Best.

Albert Best was a postman and a world famous Spiritualist Medium. He was also the uncle of footballer George Best.
Ann Kennedy was the wife of a Church of Scotland minister called the Rev. David Kennedy.

Ann Kennedy died while she was still in her forties.

Before Ann had died she had promised to try to find a way to contact her husband from beyond the grave.

Although it was against his religion, the Rev. David Kennedy contacted a Medium called Lexie Findletter. Lexie told David that Ann was trying to communicate with him.

A week later David was asleep at home. He was awoken by the sound of the phone ringing. He looked at the clock on the wall. He realised that he only had five minutes to prepare his sermon and find a clean collar. He lifted up the phone.

"Your wife Ann is with me," said a voice. "She tells me that your clean collars are in a bottom drawer of your wardrobe and the speech you prepared last year for this service is in the top drawer of your desk. Incidentally, my name is Albert Best."

David looked in the bottom drawer of the wardrobe and found the three clean collars.

Albert went on to say that Ann told him to tell David that he (David) needed to send to the laundry the 23 soiled collars which he had already accumulated in a special box where he kept his collars. When David counted the number of collars in his box, there were 23 in all.

More messages reached David in the days that followed. On one occasion Albert said that Ann had asked him to tell David to phone Ann's sister and ask about the ballet shoes. When David did so, Ann's sister was astounded that he knew about the private joke that had been a secret between Ann and her sister.





Sources:

Gordon Smith, The Unbelievable Truth (2005)

David Kennedy, A Venture in Immortality (Colin Smythe, 1973).

From pierrejoubert.blogspot
damn me! 

I had no notion that Albert Best was Georgie Best's uncle!  George's life of football brilliance, but tragic life and death is one that's always caught my imagination. 

It always makes me wonder if all was planned that way for reason we can't see let alone understand....

    Current date/time is 19th April 2018, 14:47