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Michael Shermer's skepticism is "shaken to to the core"

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Michael Shermer's skepticism is "shaken to to the core"

Post by Candlelight.kk on Sun 14 May 2017, 16:39

21 Sep 2014, 23:54

Interesting article by prominent skeptic, Michael Shermer, published in Scientific American, Volume 311, Issue 4

(Dr. Michael Shermer is the Founding Publisher of Skeptic magazine, the Executive Director of the Skeptics Society, a monthly columnist for Scientific American, the host of the The Skeptics Society’s Distinguished Science Lecture Series, and Adjunct Professor at Claremont Graduate University and Chapman University.)

Anomalous Events That Can Shake One’s Skepticism to the Core

'I just witnessed an event so mysterious that it shook my skepticism'
Sep 16, 2014 |By Michael Shermer

Often I am asked if I have ever encountered something that I could not explain. What my interlocutors have in mind are not bewildering enigmas such as consciousness or U.S. foreign policy but anomalous and mystifying events that suggest the existence of the paranormal or supernatural. My answer is: yes, now I have.

The event took place on June 25, 2014. On that day I married Jennifer Graf, from Köln, Germany. She had been raised by her mom; her grandfather, Walter, was the closest father figure she had growing up, but he died when she was 16. In shipping her belongings to my home before the wedding, most of the boxes were damaged and several precious heirlooms lost, including her grandfather's binoculars. His 1978 Philips 070 transistor radio arrived safely, so I set out to bring it back to life after decades of muteness. I put in new batteries and opened it up to see if there were any loose connections to solder. I even tried “percussive maintenance,” said to work on such devices—smacking it sharply against a hard surface. Silence. We gave up and put it at the back of a desk drawer in our bedroom.

Three months later, after affixing the necessary signatures to our marriage license at the Beverly Hills courthouse, we returned home, and in the presence of my family said our vows and exchanged rings. Being 9,000 kilometers from family, friends and home, Jennifer was feeling amiss and lonely. She wished her grandfather were there to give her away. She whispered that she wanted to say something to me alone, so we excused ourselves to the back of the house where we could hear music playing in the bedroom. We don't have a music system there, so we searched for laptops and iPhones and even opened the back door to check if the neighbors were playing music. We followed the sound to the printer on the desk, wondering—absurdly—if this combined printer/scanner/fax machine also included a radio. Nope.

At that moment Jennifer shot me a look I haven't seen since the supernatural thriller The Exorcist startled audiences. “That can't be what I think it is, can it?” she said. She opened the desk drawer and pulled out her grandfather's transistor radio, out of which a romantic love song wafted. We sat in stunned silence for minutes. “My grandfather is here with us,” Jennifer said, tearfully. “I'm not alone.”

Shortly thereafter we returned to our guests with the radio playing as I recounted the backstory. My daughter, Devin, who came out of her bedroom just before the ceremony began, added, “I heard the music coming from your room just as you were about to start.” The odd thing is that we were there getting ready just minutes before that time, sans music.

Later that night we fell asleep to the sound of classical music emanating from Walter's radio. Fittingly, it stopped working the next day and has remained silent ever since.

What does this mean? Had it happened to someone else I might suggest a chance electrical anomaly and the law of large numbers as an explanation—with billions of people having billions of experiences every day, there's bound to be a handful of extremely unlikely events that stand out in their timing and meaning. In any case, such anecdotes do not constitute scientific evidence that the dead survive or that they can communicate with us via electronic equipment.

Jennifer is as skeptical as I am when it comes to paranormal and supernatural phenomena. Yet the eerie conjunction of these deeply evocative events gave her the distinct feeling that her grandfather was there and that the music was his gift of approval. I have to admit, it rocked me back on my heels and shook my skepticism to its core as well. I savored the experience more than the explanation.

The emotional interpretations of such anomalous events grant them significance regardless of their causal account. And if we are to take seriously the scientific credo to keep an open mind and remain agnostic when the evidence is indecisive or the riddle unsolved, we should not shut the doors of perception when they may be opened to us to marvel in the mysterious.


One of the comments to that article (comment #10) reads:
I am a skeptic, and a subscriber to Skeptic Magazine. Other than minor frustration with some political biases on Shermer's part that sometimes have crept into his writing in the past, I have been a huge fan for 20 years. This article really intrigued me. I am surprised and impressed that Shermer wrote it, perhaps knowing that some fellow skeptics and his fans may be annoyed. I would have been annoyed 10+ years ago, and am a little embarassed to report that I also had a remarkable and unexplained thing happen to me and three witnesses about ten years ago in Santa Barbara. If someone else had shared with me a story similar to what happened to me, I would NEVER believe it, even today. Not ever. So....... I just don't know what to say, other than our world is full of mystery, and skepticism is an appropriate response to our world, as long as we are humble and honest about all that we do not understand.
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Re: Michael Shermer's skepticism is "shaken to to the core"

Post by Candlelight.kk on Sun 14 May 2017, 16:42

28 Sep 2014, 00:09

Related links and further discussion on this story:

Michael Shermer's skepticism is "shaken to the core"
http://krazykats.forumotion.co.uk/t455-michael-shermer-s-skepticism-is-shaken-to-the-core

Michael Shermer on his "anomalous event".
http://skeps.freeforums.org/michael-shermer-on-his-anomalous-event-t1756.html

Is Michael Shermer becoming a believer??
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?s=76ee536d906d9e8645aab1a9a91ec637&t=283335

ARCH-SKEPTIC Michael Shermer admits to a PARANORMAL EXPERIENCE!
https://lunaticoutpost.com/showthread.php?tid=469432

Michael Shermer's skepticism has been "shaken to the core"
http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threads/michael-shermers-skepticism-has-been-shaken-to-the-core.1318/

Michael Shermer Loses His Faith In Skepticism
http://www.supernaturalworldview.com/2014/09/26/michael-shermer-loses-his-faith-in-skepticism/

Has Skeptical Michael Shermer Seen the Light?
http://www.dailygrail.com/Skepticism/2014/9/Has-Skeptic-Michael-Shermer-Seen-the-Light

Michael Shermer is becoming a believer??
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=24425

To understand the anomalous we need MORE skepticism, not less
http://www.bernardokastrup.com/2014/09/we-need-more-skepticism.html

Michael Shermer's Paranormal Experience
http://triablogue.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/michael-shermers-paranormal-experience.html?showComment=1411800125222

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Re: Michael Shermer's skepticism is "shaken to to the core"

Post by JDBP on Sun 14 May 2017, 16:44

29 Sep 2014, 10:07

You know us skeptics all have interesting experiences like Mr Shermers, the difference is we are smart enough to understand the reasoning, and emotive issues that make them so interesting.

Shermer makes it very clear that he did not witness anything paranormal, but that he found it interesting.

I have myself had interesting moments which ast first I could not explain, or that had some kind of emotional meaning that amplified the experience ten fold.

I have seen strange things happen, and a lesser mind would give them supernatural meaning.

Jumping on a bandwagon just because it is Michael Shermer is quite sad, his experience although interesting is no more important than any one elses experience.

You just on it BECAUSE he is a skeptic and you are giving more meaning to it because of that, so you are in essence admitting that a skeptic who experiences something interesting is more important than a believer! Do you understand the hypocrisy here??

In a way you are admitting that a skeptic experiencing something is more evidentially important BECAUSE they are a skeptic and because they are more intelligent and critically minded than a believer!

So why do you take so much offence when a skeptic tells a believer that they are ignorant of something, or uneducated in the methods of a psychic? These are facts, yet you put your own down BECAUSE it was a skeptic who expeirenced a completely explainable yet interesting occurence.

I hope you can understand my point here, and I am a little annoyed that I have been accused of sweeping this under the carpet! I do no such thing, i just treat his anecdote like I would any one elses, and he isnt even claiming it was paranormal!!

As for having their skepticism shaken to the core, it has happened to me many times! And I even covered one such instance in my 7 page featured spread in The Skeptic magazine many years ago!

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Re: Michael Shermer's skepticism is "shaken to to the core"

Post by JDBP on Sun 14 May 2017, 16:44

29 Sep 2014, 10:12

Also worth noting if you go to the links to Skeps and Randi forums, and they both totally debunk and explain the whole experience!

So again how is this me sweeping it under the carpet when there literally is nothing to cover up!

I haven't reported on the story because I find it evidentially worthless regardless of who wrote it!
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Re: Michael Shermer's skepticism is "shaken to to the core"

Post by Candlelight.kk on Sun 14 May 2017, 16:46

29 Sep 2014, 12:23

JDBP wrote:Jumping on a bandwagon just because it is Michael Shermer is quite sad, his experience although interesting is no more important than any one elses experience.

You just on it BECAUSE he is a skeptic and you are giving more meaning to it because of that

No, it's not "just because he is a skeptic".  I think Michael Shermer's experience stands out a little more than some others - simply because he is a person well known for shooting down such similar accounts made by others (presumably with very little understanding as to the emotional nature and personal profundity attributed to such serendipitous occurrences).  He is still as skeptical as ever he was before this, but does admit that the "evidence is indecisive" or "the riddle unsolved", and suggests that "if we are to take seriously the scientific credo to keep an open mind and remain agnostic when the evidence is indecisive or the riddle unsolved, we should not shut the doors of perception when they may be opened to us to marvel in the mysterious."
This is the part that the skeptics appear to be up in arms about .... and cannot seem to accept.
I think it took great courage for him (being in the position that he is) to have spoken out about this, knowing full well the controversy this would create amongst the so-called "critical thinkers".  In fact, really, he is enacting the epitomy of critical thinking there - and those who consider themselves to BE critical thinkers are the last to seem to be able to understand that.  
The emphasis here is not on what happened and whether or not the radio works now etc etc ... the lesson here goes a lot deeper, perhaps just that little bit too deep for a closed mind to cope with.

JDBP wrote:I am a little annoyed that I have been accused of sweeping this under the carpet! I do no such thing, i just treat his anecdote like I would any one elses, and he isnt even claiming it was paranormal!!
Well, he is not ruling out the possibility of there being a paranormal slant involved ...  he IS keeping an open mind ............

JDBP wrote:As for having their skepticism shaken to the core, it has happened to me many times! And I even covered one such instance in my 7 page featured spread in The Skeptic magazine many years ago!
I have read your famous 7-page spread!  If you are suggesting the instances where you got a few guesses right ....(?), I really don't think you can class those as occasions where your skepticism will have been "shaken to the core"!

What other instances can you remember of skepticism-shaking relevance?  Care to share?

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Re: Michael Shermer's skepticism is "shaken to to the core"

Post by JDBP on Sun 14 May 2017, 16:48

29 Sep 2014, 12:54

Candlelight.kk wrote:
JDBP wrote:Jumping on a bandwagon just because it is Michael Shermer is quite sad, his experience although interesting is no more important than any one elses experience.

You just on it BECAUSE he is a skeptic and you are giving more meaning to it because of that

No, it's not "just because he is a skeptic".  I think Michael Shermer's experience stands out a little more than some others - simply because he is a person well known for shooting down such similar accounts made by others (presumably with very little understanding as to the emotional nature and personal profundity attributed to such serendipitous occurrences).  He is still as skeptical as ever he was before this, but does admit that the "evidence is indecisive" or "the riddle unsolved", and suggests that "if we are to take seriously the scientific credo to keep an open mind and remain agnostic when the evidence is indecisive or the riddle unsolved, we should not shut the doors of perception when they may be opened to us to marvel in the mysterious."
This is the part that the skeptics appear to be up in arms about .... and cannot seem to accept.

No one I know is up in arms about anything, I am certainly not up in arms, I simply couldn't care less.

And again you are being hypocritical and are shouting from the rooftops BECAUSE of who he is.
His experience is no more or less interesting than anyone elses anecdote.

Also you are misinterpreting his words i think to suit your own agenda.

For example to "marvel in the mysterious" does not automatically mean paranormal and ghosties you know.

Stop bandwagon jumping!

I think it took great courage for him (being in the position that he is) to have spoken out about this, knowing full well the controversy this would create amongst the so-called "critical thinkers".  In fact, really, he is enacting the epitomy of critical thinking there - and those who consider themselves to BE critical thinkers are the last to seem to be able to understand that. 

No courage whatsoever! He has just recounted an interesting occurance that was in no way paranormal, just a bit strange.
I have personally recounted much more impressive "evidence" of psychic abilities, and on a large stage too, and no one said I was being courageous or brave! Again you jumping on this because of who he is, and its quite pathetic.

The emphasis here is not on what happened and whether or not the radio works now etc etc ... the lesson here goes a lot deeper, perhaps just that little bit too deep for a closed mind to cope with.

As Skeptics we must have an open mind as the basis of critical thinking and skepticism!
Closed minds are what believers have as they refuse to change them despite the facts showing otherwise!
Again you confusing the meaning of the word skepticism and cynicism, which are polar opposites!
In fact Cynicism perfectly matches believers, as they both have a very similar thought process, just with different starting points.

Believer - Nothing you say or do will ever change my mind because I have had my proof
Cynic - Nothing you say or do will change my mind as I know its nonsense
Skeptic - I am skeptical of the claim, but open minded to changing it if evidence presents itself.

Science exists on the basis of being skeptical/open minded, they are the same thing!

Well, he is not ruling out the possibility of there being a paranormal slant involved ...  he IS keeping an open mind ............

AS DO ALL SKEPTICS!
We all have open minds to the paranormal, as we do to any "mysterious" or unproven claim!
Again you jumping on this trying to make a point and failing miserably and showing your complete ignorance to the meaning of simple words!

I have read your famous 7-page spread!  If you are suggesting the instances where you got a few guesses right ....(?), I really don't think you can class those as occasions where your skepticism will have been "shaken to the core"!

I wasn't referring to my success as a medium, top of the class and a hell of a lot more than a few guesses right!
I was referring to something else, which is the ONLY time I have been unable to explain something.

Or how about that time i DEFENDED mediums and was covered in the Psychic News! Where was the shouts of "So courageous is Jon Donnis for speaking out in defence of the very people he calls frauds"

My TRUE altruistic skepticism and open mindedness is one of the reasons I am in general despised by the skeptical communities.
Yet as usual I get no credit from anyone!
People forget that I nearly always had practising mediums as admins on my site and forum, I have done a HELL OF A LOT MORE than Michael Shermers has when it comes to actually investigating and understanding mediumship you know!

Now of course I know that I wont get credit I am used to that now, but come on, Michael Shermer has said nothing of great value, just recounted a little fun story of something that was interesting, and suddenly believers everywhere are hailing him as this great skeptic cause he has jumped teh shark into believerdom, when the truth is he has done nothing of the sort.

Hell he probably only printed that story cause he got a book coming out or something and wanted extra publicity.

So my advice to you and everyone else jumping on this bandwagon, is actually understand what he said, understand the terminologies and stop being so damned pathetic and arse licky.

When you find a skeptic with just 50% of the experience I have had, saying something of value about his skepticism truly being shaken to the core, then give me a shout.
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Re: Michael Shermer's skepticism is "shaken to to the core"

Post by Candlelight.kk on Sun 14 May 2017, 16:51

30 Sep 2014, 14:18

I think it took great courage for him (being in the position that he is) to have spoken out about this, knowing full well the controversy this would create amongst the so-called "critical thinkers". In fact, really, he is enacting the epitomy of critical thinking there - and those who consider themselves to BE critical thinkers are the last to seem to be able to understand that.

JDBP wrote:No courage whatsoever! He has just recounted an interesting occurance that was in no way paranormal, just a bit strange.
I have personally recounted much more impressive "evidence" of psychic abilities, and on a large stage too, and no one said I was being courageous or brave!
JDBP wrote:Or how about that time i DEFENDED mediums and was covered in the Psychic News! Where was the shouts of "So courageous is Jon Donnis for speaking out in defence of the very people he calls frauds"

It's not about you though, Jon.  This is about Michael Shermer, the guy who has written such material as Why People Believe Weird Things - regularly referred to by skeptics as a way of "educating one's self".

It's simply intriguing (and a little amusing) to see the various reactions of the skeptic community (AND the "believers also) to this recent article of his.
You talk about "misinterpreting his words" ...  I think everyone is taking from this article what they want to see ... including the skeptics! and none of their conclusions seem to agree with each other.  Perhaps, at the end of the day, that was the intention ...
to get people thinking more about these things - but importantly, thinking for themselves.

JDBP wrote:For example to "marvel in the mysterious" does not automatically mean paranormal and ghosties you know.

No, of course it doesn't - but in the context of this article, that's precisely what Michael Shermer is referring to.

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Re: Michael Shermer's skepticism is "shaken to to the core"

Post by JDBP on Sun 14 May 2017, 16:54

30 Sep 2014, 14:41

It's simply intriguing (and a little amusing) to see the various reactions of the skeptic community (AND the "believers also) to this recent article of his.
You talk about "misinterpreting his words" ...  I think everyone is taking from this article what they want to see ... including the skeptics! and none of their conclusions seem to agree with each other.  Perhaps, at the end of the day, that was the intention ...
to get people thinking more about these things - but importantly, thinking for themselves.

I never took anything away from it, because there is nothing to take away, and why I never published anything about it, so why you felt the need to message me and say I was sweeping it under the rug as if it was this great moment in history of a skeptic becoming a believer is beyond me, and now you are saying you are intrigued by peoples reactions.

My reaction was to not care about a non event, yet you tried (and suceeded) to get my involved. Do you see why this seems a bit sad on your behalf.

JDBP wrote:For example to "marvel in the mysterious" does not automatically mean paranormal and ghosties you know.

No, of course it doesn't - but in the context of this article, that's precisely what Michael Shermer is referring to.


WHO CARES!!! He never had a paranormal experience, he never claimed he has.
He just wrote an article to get himself in the news, THATS IT! And YOU and all your woo friends fell for it!
Yet the Great Donnis didn't because he KNOWS how these things work.

I am not some noobie skeptic on a forum trying to be a big man!
I am a BIG MAN who runs the WORLDS largest site dedicated to exposing psychics!
Hell I done more to expose psychics than Michael Shermer as ever done! I am not saying I am better than him or he is better than me, only that I am not so stupid  LIKE YOU to jump on ridiculous stories when there really isn't anything.

Anyway thats the last I will say on this as it is an almighty waste of time.
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Re: Michael Shermer's skepticism is "shaken to to the core"

Post by Candlelight.kk on Sun 14 May 2017, 16:57

30 Sep 2014, 19:49

JDBP wrote:I never took anything away from it, because there is nothing to take away
Actually, there is plenty.  Just because you cannot see that, doesn't take away from it.


JDBP wrote:He just wrote an article to get himself in the news
I guess that remains to be seen.  It will be interesting to see, in the future, whether his way of thinking has changed in any way as a direct result of this experience, especially when responding to accounts of others who experience similar meaningful, serendipitous situations.

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Re: Michael Shermer's skepticism is "shaken to to the core"

Post by JDBP on Sun 14 May 2017, 16:58

30 Sep 2014, 21:06

Why would his way of thinking change? Makes no sense being a skeptic is the perfect way to think. If he changed that he would be a fool.
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Re: Michael Shermer's skepticism is "shaken to to the core"

Post by Candlelight.kk on Sun 14 May 2017, 17:00

05 Dec 2014, 09:16

Michael Shermer tweets:




Following the huge amount of interest generated in the fall-out from his controversial statement in the Scientific American article: “I have to admit, it rocked me back on my heels and shook my skepticism to its core as well.”, Michael Shermer has had to do a quick re-think in an effort to salvage his credibility and standing within the 'skeptic community'.

So, he has made the following reply to one of his many critics:
http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2014/12/04/shermer-has-a-woo-experience-admits-there-may-be-something-to-it/
   I read your commentary, Jerry, and as usual with your critiques in your blog I agree with all your points about my Scientific American column. To clarify matters please see this further explanation of my interpretation, which is that my experience in no way implies something paranormal or supernatural. As I’ve always said (and repeat here), there’s no such thing as the paranormal or supernatural; there is just the normal, the natural, and mysteries as yet unexplained by natural law and chance/contingency.

    Much has been made of the subtitle of the original column (stating that my skepticism was shaken to the core), a variation of which was used for the Online title of the essay. As is common in all magazine and newspaper articles, essays, and opinion editorials, the editors write the title and subtitle in a way that will make the article seem more compelling to read, and that is the case here. My Scientific American editors give me much freedom in choosing my own titles and subtitles, but when they have done rewrites for previous columns I have always felt they were better than my original, and this one seemed good to me at the time. But now I see that many readers took it in a way I had not intended. My skepticism is in fine shape.

    Hopefully this clarification in Slate will clear up matters. I guess if I had to sum it up even briefer it would be this: Weird things happen. We can’t explain everything. Enjoy the experience. But don’t abandon science or the natural worldview.

    Michael

The words in the statement remain the same, however - he has not retracted, and basically leaves it up to the individual to decide their meaning, whichever camp they happen to reside in.  Clever man. thumb

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Re: Michael Shermer's skepticism is "shaken to to the core"

Post by JDBP on Sun 14 May 2017, 17:03

05 Dec 2014, 11:35

Candlelight.kk wrote:Michael Shermer tweets:




Following the huge amount of interest generated in the fall-out from his controversial statement in the Scientific American article: “I have to admit, it rocked me back on my heels and shook my skepticism to its core as well.”, Michael Shermer has had to do a quick re-think in an effort to salvage his credibility and standing within the 'skeptic community'.

So once again I was 100% right! Who'd have predicted that lol.

He is not salvaging anything.
He is explaining the meaning of what was written, something which pretty much every skeptic I know, UNDERSTOOD and had no problem with!

Its the desperate believers who jumped all over a single sentence!

The words in the statement remain the same, however - he has not retracted, and basically leaves it up to the individual to decide their meaning, whichever camp they happen to reside in.  Clever man. thumb


Why would he have to change anything?

Are you so desperate to have a skeptic of name value admit the paranormal that you will twist and manipulate anything they say to suit your own needs!

You know I have had my skepticism shaken to the core a few times! Yep its true, then using critical thinking, logic, intelligence and an all round expert knowledge I figure it out and all is good again.

You see that is the main difference between skeptics and believers.

Skeptics WANT to be proven wrong, that is the most exciting thing that can happen.
I WANT to be wrong (never has happened in regards to the paranormal 100% record you know).

So now he has clarified what everyone with half a brain already knew, will you stop going on about this as if it was something amazing?

You know I had fake psychic John Sutton talking about how in his recent Documentary James Randi used to be a psychic, but turned his back on that side of his life!

They completely misunderstood a part of the documentary, had twisted it in their head, and probably been spouting that wrong opinion to anyone who would listen!

THIS IS WHAT BELIEVERS DO!

Let me list some facts.

1. Ghosts do not exist
2. Mediums do not communicate with the dead
3. Telekinesis, remote viewing, psychic abilities etc, DO NOT EXIST


If you believe in any of those 3 things either for yourself or for others, YOU ARE WRONG.

There is no debate here. We are talking about 100 years of real scientific study that proves these things as not existing.
If you educate yourself, do real research you will understand.
If you dont, you are an idiot, a fool, gullible, and a fraud, and really really need to grow up

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Re: Michael Shermer's skepticism is "shaken to to the core"

Post by JDBP on Sun 14 May 2017, 17:04

05 Dec 2014, 11:38

JDBP wrote:
I never took anything away from it, because there is nothing to take away, and why I never published anything about it, so why you felt the need to message me and say I was sweeping it under the rug as if it was this great moment in history of a skeptic becoming a believer is beyond me, and now you are saying you are intrigued by peoples reactions.

WHO CARES!!! He never had a paranormal experience, he never claimed he has.
He just wrote an article to get himself in the news, THATS IT! And YOU and all your woo friends fell for it!
Yet the Great Donnis didn't because he KNOWS how these things work.

I am not some noobie skeptic on a forum trying to be a big man!
I am a BIG MAN who runs the WORLDS largest site dedicated to exposing psychics!
Hell I done more to expose psychics than Michael Shermer as ever done! I am not saying I am better than him or he is better than me, only that I am not so stupid  LIKE YOU to jump on ridiculous stories when there really isn't anything.


Just thought I remind you of my previous comments on this story which have now been 100% proven to be 100% correct!

Once again the Great Donnis is proven right, his 100% record intact! His big head that little bit bigger!

The ego lives on, the legend continues, the great man stands tall, his head held high! His immortal status as skeptic legend as strong as ever!

Where as the woo community left in tatters ONCE AGAIN!

Boom! Donnis wins AGAIN.

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Re: Michael Shermer's skepticism is "shaken to to the core"

Post by JDBP on Sun 14 May 2017, 17:05

05 Dec 2014, 11:39

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Re: Michael Shermer's skepticism is "shaken to to the core"

Post by Candlelight.kk on Sun 14 May 2017, 17:07

05 Dec 2014, 22:18
Yeah Yeah - if you say so, Jon.



Gee, I hope somebody buys you a trumpet for Christmas, so you can get to blow your own - for a change.


(New smiley on the forum - specially for you)
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Re: Michael Shermer's skepticism is "shaken to to the core"

Post by Misty on Sun 14 May 2017, 17:09

06 Dec 2014, 00:58

gigle
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Re: Michael Shermer's skepticism is "shaken to to the core"

Post by Candlelight.kk on Sun 14 May 2017, 17:11

01 Feb 2015, 12:06

This should be interesting.

http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threads/upcomming-interview-dr-michael-shermer-the-moral-arc.1733/

Alex Tsakiris of Skeptiko will be interviewing Michael Shermer.

"Dr. Michael Shermer will be joining me next week to talk about his new book, The Moral Arc. Any questions?"

I'm looking forward to it.

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Re: Michael Shermer's skepticism is "shaken to to the core"

Post by JDBP on Sun 14 May 2017, 17:12

01 Feb 2015, 12:31

Alex Tsakiris might be Greek, but that is the end of his credibility!
The man is a hack, not a true skeptic.
Proper looney!

Shermer will rip him to pieces, but then Tsakiris will edit the show, stick in ridiculous voice overs, and try and twist things.

There is only one legendary Greek Skeptic, and he runs a website called BadPsychics!

ps. Hardly surprising that a woo would be looking forward to a woo interviewing a skeptic!
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Re: Michael Shermer's skepticism is "shaken to to the core"

Post by Candlelight.kk on Sun 14 May 2017, 17:15

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Re: Michael Shermer's skepticism is "shaken to to the core"

Post by Dreamon on Sun 14 May 2017, 17:18

14 Apr 2015, 16:42

Shermer on FB describing the Skeptico interview:

" Alex Tsakiris takes me to task for not accepting Pim van Lommel's NDE research as afterlife proof http://t.co/Ut1ATVUVQC "

This is the research they discussed. 

http://profezie3m.altervista.org/archivio/TheLancet_NDE.htm
Near-death experience in survivors of cardiac arrest: a prospective study in the Netherlands
Pim van Lommel, Ruud van Wees, Vincent Meyers, Ingrid Elfferich


You decide?
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Re: Michael Shermer's skepticism is "shaken to to the core"

Post by Candlelight.kk on Sun 14 May 2017, 17:21

14 Apr 2015, 22:25

Dreamon wrote:Shermer on FB describing the Skeptico interview:

" Alex Tsakiris takes me to task for not accepting Pim van Lommel's NDE research as afterlife proof http://t.co/Ut1ATVUVQC "

This is the research they discussed. 

http://profezie3m.altervista.org/archivio/TheLancet_NDE.htm
Near-death experience in survivors of cardiac arrest: a prospective study in the Netherlands
Pim van Lommel, Ruud van Wees, Vincent Meyers, Ingrid Elfferich


You decide?


What's to decide?  And who is to do the deciding?

Sorry Dreamon, it's not really too clear what you're saying here ...(?)

Thanks for the link.  Interesting example given in that study.  I had heard the story before but didn't realise it was part of Mr van Lommel's research study.

During the pilot phase in one of the hospitals, a coronary-care-unit nurse reported a veridical out-of-body experience of a resuscitated patient:

"During a night shift an ambulance brings in a 44-year-old cyanotic, comatose man into the coronary care unit. He had been found about an hour before in a meadow by passers-by. After admission, he receives artificial respiration without intubation, while heart massage and defibrillation are also applied. When we want to intubate the patient, he turns out to have dentures in his mouth. I remove these upper dentures and put them onto the 'crash car'. Meanwhile, we continue extensive CPR. After about an hour and a half the patient has sufficient heart rhythm and blood pressure, but he is still ventilated and intubated, and he is still comatose. He is transferred to the intensive care unit to continue the necessary artificial respiration. Only after more than a week do I meet again with the patient, who is by now back on the cardiac ward. I distribute his medication. The moment he sees me he says: 'Oh, that nurse knows where my dentures are'. I am very surprised. Then he elucidates: 'Yes, you were there when I was brought into hospital and you took my dentures out of my mouth and put them onto that car, it had all these bottles on it and there was this sliding drawer underneath and there you put my teeth.' I was especially amazed because I remembered this happening while the man was in deep coma and in the process of CPR. When I asked further, it appeared the man had seen himself lying in bed, that he had perceived from above how nurses and doctors had been busy with CPR. He was also able to describe correctly and in detail the small room in which he had been resuscitated as well as the appearance of those present like myself. At the time that he observed the situation he had been very much afraid that we would stop CPR and that he would die. And it is true that we had been very negative about the patient's prognosis due to his very poor medical condition when admitted. The patient tells me that he desperately and unsuccessfully tried to make it clear to us that he was still alive and that we should continue CPR. He is deeply impressed by his experience and says he is no longer afraid of death. 4 weeks later he left hospital as a healthy man."
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Re: Michael Shermer's skepticism is "shaken to to the core"

Post by Dreamon on Sun 14 May 2017, 17:23

15 Apr 2015, 11:29

It's whatever you wish it to be. 

You simply can't win under the Tsakiris grilling.  Anyone who has ever subjected to interview by him will say the same thing.

https://pseudoastro.wordpress.com/2010/05/29/skeptiko-host-alex-tsakiris-on-the-non-scientifically-trained-trying-to-dounderstand-science/

    Current date/time is Fri 22 Sep 2017, 19:45